From an AP story today, a wet dream for NEARI / AFT / McWalters. I wonder if the kids in Venezuela will also get to do a "portfolio," instead of taking a test, in order to graduate?

VENEZUELA'S CHAVEZ MAY TAKE OVER SCHOOLS

By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writer
September 17, 2007

CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened on Monday to close or take over any private school that refuses to submit to the oversight of his socialist government as it develops a new curriculum and textbooks.

"Society cannot allow the private sector to do whatever it wants," said Chavez, speaking on the first day of classes.

All schools, public and private, must admit state inspectors and submit to the government's new educational system, or be closed and nationalized, with the state taking responsibility for the education of their children, Chavez said.

A new curriculum will be ready by the end of this school year, and new textbooks are being developed to help educate "the new citizen," said Chavez's brother and education minister Adan Chavez, who joined him a televised ceremony at the opening of a public school in the eastern town of El Tigre.

The president's opponents accuse him of aiming to indoctrinate young Venezuelans with socialist ideology. But the education minister said the aim is to develop "critical thinking," not to impose a single way of thought.

"The president's opponents accuse him of aiming to indoctrinate young Venezuelans with socialist ideology."

And this is different from what's going on in American schools today how?

>>And this is different from what's going on in American schools today how?

Different only in degree, not in kind ... and the difference in degree is lessening all of the time!

Don,

Your obsession with this issue is getting a bit old - clearly, you are aware that in East Greenwich, the educational results are quite good and your (and my) real estate values are just one outside market indicator on how highly the East Greenwich public school system is respected.

You seem to delight in anecdotes that put teachers in a bad light, and ignore the thousands of great stories about student and teacher successes. You alternatively blame the national, state, and local unions, intermixed with attacks on individuals based on unsubtantiated anecdotes.

I understand that you hate unions, especially in the public sector, but you have failed to answer some of the basic questions you allude to - for instance, what is fair compensation for an East Greenwich teacher, and what in the local results indicate that the job is not getting done in East Greenwich?

The rumor in town is that you are moving to Massachusetts, and if so, I am curious which community you will choose for your residence, and how that community compares to East Greenwich from an educational standpoint, and from the standpoint of how public employees are compensated.

While you are a very bright individual, your bitterness makes it hard to find any nuggets of wisdom in your postings becaseu your bias is so evident.

"While you are a very bright individual, your bitterness makes it hard to find any nuggets of wisdom in your postings becaseu your bias is so evident."

If that's the yardstick, NOTHING that you post needs to be even read as we can disregard as being exceptionally biased and anti-taxpayer.

to say nothing of the entitlement mentality you display, Hey Don. Hmmm, lets start with a third hand report, then throw in a tad of ad hominum, mix in a dash of innuendo, a whole bunch of justmakeitup, and you get the same old same old.....

Yawn.

>>to say nothing of the entitlement mentality you display, Hey Don. Hmmm, lets start with a third hand report, then throw in a tad of ad hominum, mix in a dash of innuendo, a whole bunch of justmakeitup, and you get the same old same old.....

Yeah, and we're STILL waiting for you NEARI folks to provide:

Material (from objective / credible sources) demonstrating that the unionization of public education has had a beneficial effect (or at least neutral) impact on educational outcomes;

NEARI's specific proposals for resolving RI's state and municipal level unfunded liabilities for pensions and retiree health care;

NEARI's specific proposals for how to comprehensively fund education in Rhode Island (just saying "more state aid" doesn't cut it) - specific sources of revenue must be cited (tax rates to be increased and/or new taxes to be imposed; naming other expenditures to be cut so that the "savings" can be diverted to education; a combination of the foregoing; etc.).

Oh yeah, we're also STILL waiting to hear the NAMES of who was responsible for the infamous midnight bill to give state pensions to teacher union officials who weren't even employed by the State - both those responsible on the union side, and on the General Assembly side (e.g., who drafted it; who introduced it).

Bob and Patty the Duck,

I just don't understand your end game. You support RI having one of the nation's richest wefare programs (not just FIP, don't play that game). You support rich public sector pensions, restrictive work rules, and a constant racheting up of comp (step increases, longevity bonuses, etc.). You support ever rising taxes to pay for it all, especially on the evil rich and corporations. And you do your best to drive visible vocal critics of the current system (like Don) out of state or into silence.

In the face of a rapidly worsening economy, which may remain stagnant for years, I just don't see the logic. Maybe I'm missing something, but apart from extraordinary tax increases, and perhaps a new Berlin Wall around RI's borders, the numbers just don't add up.

Please enlighten us about the end game you see playing out...

From Pat Crowley's (now blank) blog:

"Hi. Well, as you can see, I had a serious complication surface with the blog. The company that hosted the information simply shut down, taking all of my data with it. I am working with my local developer to get back up and running. So bear with me as I figure out some next steps."

Hey Pat, I'll bet that the company shut down because they could no longer afford their property tax bill!!!

Oops, one less pocket to pick to pay for those teacher raises and health care benefits!

"You seem to delight in anecdotes that put teachers in a bad light"

To the contrary, inasmuch as the facts speak for themselves especially as to teacher compensation and student performance, Donald and other Anchor Rising contributors have been careful to bring forward data and statistics, not anectdotes. In fact, for years, it has been those who wish to defend or distract from the growing chasm between compensation and performance who have specialized in anecdotes.

Further, it is not comfortable for anyone to look at the current state of education in Rhode Island, much less defend it, Mr. Walsh. But your charge of "bitterness" on Donald's part is patently baseless and can only be motivated by a strong desire that he stop talking about this subject.

Dammit, Ragin, this is no laughing matter. Where is the Special House Commission to Examine the Issue of Licensing Websites and Hosts?? How will Pat and the public be protected from unscrupulous hosts without extensive regulations and extravagant requirements for fees, degrees and bonds?

Still waiting to hear from NEARI ...

While the Bob Walsh's of the world relish the diversionary tactics of focusing on irrelevlant/easily manipulated minutia, sometimes it helps to take a step back and look at the big picture. When I do that I see the following: Everything run by the government is inefficient. Every industry dominated by unions has suffered immensely. ie, steel, airlines, autos, etc., due to the socialist nature of the union structure.
One of the reasons the government is inefficient is due to the public employee unions. As you can see by the airline, steel and auto industries, when they are subject to competition they go out of business or are forced to accept reality. The only reason these governments are NOT out of business is due to their monopoly status.
Now let's revisit the public schools. They are run by the government and they are dominated by the unions. Based on history, can there be a more toxic combination?

You have to be retarded if you think that anyting short of a) vouchers/competition or b) elimination of the unions, is going to fix this problem.

Realistically we are not going to get rid of the parasitic unions, leaving the only realistic way to force the change being through vouchers/ competition

Now, who can be surprised that the NEA is against ANY type of competition. Depsite all their protestations against vouchers, there is one simple reason they are against them - they know they will get their assed kicked from here to kingdom come, and the gravy train is over.

VOUCHERS ARE THE ANSWER!!!

It's unfortunate that teachers are so short sighted when it comes to their support of unions and hacks like Crowley and Walsh.

The reputation and integrity of the good teachers in the system has been compromised by supporting these clowns. A voucher system is the answer, but teachers find it a threat because it will make them accountable.

Yes, there are so many brilliant people waiting in the wings to become teachers, but they refuse. You see these people feel the pay is too high and the benefits too cushy (not just to start off with, but throughout a teacher's career!) Their moral and ethical core simply won't allow them to become part of the profession! Sad really, such brilliance lost!!

>>Yes, there are so many brilliant people waiting in the wings to become teachers, but they refuse. You see these people feel the pay is too high and the benefits too cushy (not just to start off with, but throughout a teacher's career!) Their moral and ethical core simply won't allow them to become part of the profession! Sad really, such brilliance lost!!

Oh, such sarcasm ...

So I guess that you're saying that we should fire the current (apparently third tier skill level) teachers, raise the pay, and then hire brilliant teachers?

Sounds like a fair trade-off!

Oops, wait. There's tenure and union contract protection.

So we can't fire the current crop of third rate teachers.

So then the only fair thing to do is keep the pay low, or even make it lower still!

At this point it seems safe to assume that ANYTHING that the RIs teacher unions are dead set against is probably good for education: vouchers, competition of any kind, accountability, merit pay, "high stakes" testing, longer school days, etc.

On the other hand anything the teacher unions fight hard to perpetuate seems to run counter to educational goals: unfair advantage at the bargaining table, very high pay/benefits (which cost the district so much that staff, including teachers, have to be laid off; student programs and activities get cut; books and supplies can't be purchased, schools get closed; etc.), and contract rigidity that prevents effective management of the entire education system.

And then there are the not so uncommon teacher union practices of striking and work to rule which wreak havoc on the community when they are employed.

The day can't come soon enough when this dark cloud that hangs over our public education system is blown out to see, never to haunt us again.

So what would you would pay the brilliant people you wish would take the "third rate" teachers place?

Frederick, what sort of imbecilic question is that?

>>So what would you would pay the brilliant people you wish would take the "third rate" teachers place?

1) Base salary of average of teachers salaries across the country (public and private schools); plus

2) Bonuses that would bring that base salary up to the average salary made by doctors and lawyers, prorated for the 9 (instead of 12) month work year. The bonus amount would be calculated and prorated to reflect the amount by which a) their students score meet U.S. average (0% bonus) to b) the meet "best in the world" scores (100%); plus

3) No pension, but a 403b with an employer match that is equivalent to those that are standard in the private sector; and

3) Health care benefits equivalent to those offered in the private sector; and

4) NO tenure or seniority.

I do agree that the education system in this country must to be reformed - it needs to evolve to prepare students for the challenges of the 21st century - and it is falling short. However, attacking the educators, who are the ones willing to teach our children, is clearly not the way to inspire productive change. Revising curriculum, funding focused, proven initiatives, and inspiring, not deterring, intelligent individuals to continue to enter the teaching profession will create vast improvements in our nation's educational system. Constant "blanket" statements that belittle and degrade public school teachers will only serve to push great teachers out of the profession and prevent many more talented individuals from entering it. The system must be improved - but this should not imply that all who currently work within it are the problem.

Imbecilic? You want to rid the schools of unions to thus get a "better crop" of teachers in. Well, I don't understand how you expect to attract those best and the brightest to the profession with what is proposed.

Not to mention a child is more than a test score!

>>I do agree that the education system in this country must to be reformed - it needs to evolve to prepare students for the challenges of the 21st century - and it is falling short. However, attacking the educators, who are the ones willing to teach our children, is clearly not the way to inspire productive change. Revising curriculum, funding focused, proven initiatives, and inspiring, not deterring, intelligent individuals to continue to enter the teaching profession will create vast improvements in our nation's educational system. Constant "blanket" statements that belittle and degrade public school teachers will only serve to push great teachers out of the profession and prevent many more talented individuals from entering it. The system must be improved - but this should not imply that all who currently work within it are the problem.

Robert S. -

I believe that most on this forum are clear in drawing the distinction between teachers and teachers unions.

Consider that it is the UNIONS which seek lump teachers together as a singly mass, distinguished only be seniority - thus it is the UNION that in effect engages in "blanket statements" regarding teachers.

"Revising curriculum, funding focused, proven initiatives, and inspiring, not deterring, intelligent individuals to continue to enter the teaching profession" sounds nice, but how do you propose accomplishing that in a union environment which wants every single teacher to be treated and paid as a fungible unit within a collective ... and vehemently opposes anything that resembles merit pay for superior teacher performance, standards for minimum acceptable teacher performance, etc.?

If you want high quality public education and well-compensated professional educators, then your beef is with the teachers unions.