Ah Justin.
So young. Realize that the maggots in this state always win, the good guys always lose. BUT-the maggots have now bankrupted themselves such that the chickens are "coming home to roost".
$770 million deficit by 2012?-and that's the maggots own estimate-which means the real number is over a billion?
Like that lovely progressive male "couple" from Bristol said to the 4 little boys their fellow progressives turned over to them-
"just relax and enjoy"

The Wall is coming down.
he evil mpire is collapsing under its own weight.

Justin, tell the truth. You didn't introduce yourself or anyone else. And how do you know I came from Lincoln?

As economist Herbert Stein once said: "If something can't continue, it won't."

No matter the vote in Tiverton tonight, municipalities within Rhode Island, and the State of Rhode Island, are nearing the end of "business" as conducted the last 30 or 40 years.

Businesses and taxpayers have been leaving Rhode Island for some time, and probably soon will start leaving en masse.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." The ability end of that equation is shrinking, dramatically, and so soon the "need" will not be a determinant, for there won't be enough "from" to go around.

Duh, Pat. Because we've had you tailed for the last two days. (We pulled the team off Rhody and posted them on you.)

H'mm. Regarding the union guy who drove down from Boston, what constitutes "saying something bad about teachers"? If we were to say, for example, that teacher pay in Rhode Island is in the top fifth nationally but school/student performance is in the bottom fifth, wouldn't that be pointing out a simple fact?

Or suppose we were to observe how grossly irresponsible it would be, in view of the recession, falling revenues and deficits as far as the eye can see for any municipality to sign a contract agreeing to raises for any of its workers?

... and that, in point of fact, with taxes in Rhode Island in the top 20% nationally, falling revenues and a sea of red ink on the state level, what we need to do is to begin rolling back compensation in the public sector, never mind discussing increases or keeping it level? That's not bad, that's just fiscally responsible planning, isn't it?

" the state isn't living up to its end of the bargain"

Ma'am, the state has more than lived up to its end of the bargain for decades. That's why it's budget is half a billion in the red and why the state has taxes in the top 20% nationally.

>>Strangely, the teachers are arguing that the committee have long known that cuts were coming. Me, I'm inclined to agree — which has made it a dubious proposition to allow things to get to this point — but I don't see how that's an argument for irresponsible financing, now.

The “RItanic” post immediately below this one on Anchor Rising seems apropos right about now.

>>Guidance Councillor and active unionist Lynn Nicholas just took the microphon to say that, if the committee does not pass the contract, there will be "a lot of harm done — some financial, some not," and she made a point of leaving it there, continuing with: "Have you even begun to think about the lawyer fees."

THUG: Teacher Heaving Union Garbage

"there will be "a lot of harm done — some financial, some not,""

That sounds like a threat. Who or what would be harmed?

"Obama might swoop in and save us all"

With our money, let us note. Or, more specifically, that of our children and grandchildren.

>>Now we're having classroom logic lessons from the teachers: "If you admit that this is a fair contract and then there are cuts and you decrease the contract, wouldn't that make it an unfair contract?

And what a about a "fair" contract for the taxpayers?

Obviously the concept of a RESPONSIBLE contract hasn't occurred to them.

Gee, why am I not surprised? They're living in a fantasy world.

Do you think Pat has discovered the GPS tracking device on his car yet? ;)

Since Pat lives in Lincoln, it's not a stretch to think that he came from home. Could have come from NEARI HQ in Cranston, too. Of course, it doesn't really matter where he came from, only that he went to Tiverton. Concentrate on anything but what is actually important.

It would be unconscionable for them to approve any contract now, not having the slightest clue what their revenue is going to be. Local aid is likely to be cut substantially... they need to be looking for places to cut, not to increase spending. How about a contract which is fair to taxpayers, not just to teachers?

"Union President Amy Mullen just threatened that the deal on the table will not be available in the future."

Why is it "on the table" at all? The committee should just table it to a future date and let the chips fall where they may. They shouldn't be making any threats or demands of anyone. I can't even imagine acting like that towards my employer. They seem to forget who they work for.

"The contract failed, and the teachers stormed out..."

There is hope.

"Union President Amy Mullen just threatened that the deal on the table will not be available in the future."

Please, don't throw us in the briar patch!

>>Please, don't throw us in the briar patch!

Good one Monique.

One of the reasons that I continue to brush off the suggestion of TCC members that I run for office next time around (one of many reasons): I think I'd have responded to Ms. Mullen, "You're damned right this contract is not going to be available in the future."

Man, Pat: You don't ever let up on the tarring, do you? I think it's pretty clear that the AR readers introduced themselves to me, just giving me a more positive vibe for the meeting.

Major kudos to the School Committee for doing the responsible thing and nixing this contract.

Leave it to Mike to turn a discussion over a teacher contract into a place to air his homophobia.
Ah, Mike, our voice of rect-titude.

You all obviously do not care if your child gets a decent education. If you do not respect the teachers they will leave. They won't all leave, the young, newly educated, excited, energetic ones will leave.

Teachers are professionals with college degrees. Teachers deserve raises. Most other professionals will receive one at some point in the year, maybe it will be a bonus at the end of the year or an incentive for a good sale, either way it's still a raise. Why shouldn't teachers, educated, hard working people earn raises as well?

Do any of you know a teacher personally? Your sibling, cousin, friend? That entire summer they have off with no work must be nice huh.
You know what must be nice? Having weekday evenings from late August to Late June off, that must be nice. Most of you leave work, and aside from the occasional report that has to get done, when you get home, you are done with work for the day. Forget it if you are a teacher. From the first day of school to the last there is ALWAYS homework. Much more than many can even imagine.

This entire situation is sickening. Many of you people need to stop running your mouths and realize that you couldn't last a week being a good teacher.

losing,

Your assessment of private sector work is flatly false. In the private sector, you receive raises if the money is there. Away from unions, you receive money if your value to the company goes up markedly. I personally know well-credentialed professionals in the private sector who are agreeing to pay cuts, benefit cuts, furloughs, and so on, in this economy. Economic laws are not suspended in the public sector.

The only reason young and energetic teachers will leave is if they've been promised to much from unionists. Besides which, they've got nowhere to go, and there are plenty of other qualified professionals to take their place.

And as for your questions and statements about personal experience: I'm married to a teacher. I've taught. I know the work. But if you think you've got a bad deal, you're nuts.

Hey loser,
Get it straight - teachers that need contracts are NOT professionals. Professionals don't do contracts, loser - factory workers do.
If you need a contract you don't get any respect as a professional.
What in God's name makes you think you deserve respect as a professional, when you need a contract to perform your duties. You are, indeed, a loser!

We need a law prohibiting anyone under 35 from teaching - they need time in the real world first.

The comments of "Losing interest" (and similar ones by other teachers over the years) betray a serious lack of knowledge regarding the real world of the workplace. To paraphrase their attitude, "I have a college degree, thus I am a professional, and thus I deserve annual raises because of that status" is, well, simply laughable.

In the real world, degrees and titles get your foot in the door, after which you have to perform to get raises and/or to advance.

Those who went to a teachers college and then went straight into the classroom just don't know what other forms of full time, year round work entail. They're way too coddled in the insular environment of public education and its step increases, tenure, seniority and lack of accountability.

I mean, we're supposed to be impressed because with a 180 day work year, of 6 hour days (only part of which is actually spent in a classroom), "Losing interest" corrects some homework while sitting on the couch watching "Wheel of Fortune?"

Mike C.:

I'm going to have to disagree. There is a place for contracts in a professional setting. Your statements might have greater applicability where there's a very high degree of specificity in the contract (well beyond simple salary and duration explanations and a general description of duties), but as an employment practice there's much to be said for spelling out rights and obligations.

I would agree, however, if we specified collectively bargained contracts. Make it union-negotiated collectively bargained contracts, and we stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

"Losing interest" appears to be sincere, but one can be sincere and oh so wrong.

This is like reading NEA talking points: "Teachers are professionals with college degrees. Teachers deserve raises. Most other professionals will receive one at some point in the year, maybe it will be a bonus at the end of the year or an incentive for a good sale, either way it's still a raise. Why shouldn't teachers, educated, hard working people earn raises as well?"

Statement: "Teachers deserve raises."

That really says it all, doesn't it? That's some sense of entitlement. You "deserve" nothing. You earn it.

Taxpayers deserve not to be repeatedly screwed year after year, with nothing more to show for it (just to rile you up a little more, teachers are NOT net taxpayers, they are net tax consumers). You're paid out of public funds.

Kids deserve a quality education. Their quality of education is not dependent on what you get paid. I don't know how Tiverton ranks compared to other cities and towns, but you're certainly no Barrington. Private school teachers get paid far less, and they produce a whole heck of a lot more for it -- because it's demanded from them!

Most professionals in the private sector, if the economy or an industry isn't doing well, don't get pay raises and bonuses, especially when they haven't done anything "extra" to deserve it. Nothing is automatic.

I worked in financial services for a number of years, and the highest percent raise I ever got in a year was 4%, but typically it was around 2%. Several years, it was 0%. One year, we did so badly, they laid off 1/3 of the employees a month before Christmas. You know why? It wasn't because they were mean -- it's because they didn't have enough business, and their stock depreciated so quickly, that they couldn't justify the expense. In the real world, people get paid more, when their employer is making more money. When the employer is having a problem with revenue, they cut back on costs, just like most of us in our daily lives. When we have a problem paying the mortgage, we don't go on a spending spree at Tiffany's -- we cut back where we can. With unemployment at 9.3%, don't think for a moment that you aren't expendable. Have you ever worked in the private sector?

You deserve what you earn. Getting a degree doesn't mean you've earned anything other than consideration for future employment. Beyond that, you're to be judged by how well you do your job. Period.

Many of you have misunderstood my first comment. When I said that teachers deserve raises, I was not referring to myself. I do earn a "step" increase each year, however small, it is a raise. The teachers who do not earn raises are the veterans who have been hard working for over ten years. They have earned a raise.

Lets be honest here, its no secret that teachers get the summers off and its also no secret that don't make a lot of money.

The union has its issues, its messy, its difficult, but it is the way it has been for many years and there is no simple way to just "get rid of it".

There needs to be many changes in the education system at the state and local levels, but complaining about it and bad mouthing teachers is not changing anything at all.

Mike C- I am not a "loser". Come on. :)

I'd suggest that the union is to blame for leaving top teachers twisting in the wind. The union has structured the pay scale in such a way as to use the most experienced teachers as leverage to push salaries ever higher — to put a face on the folks receiving no raises.

I'd also dispute your assertion that teachers "don't make a lot of money." Public school teachers have enviable employment packages. On an hourly basis, y'all make $50 to $70 per hour. I know some argue that with your degrees and whatnot, you ought to be comparable to doctors and executives, but that's simply not realistic... or fair to the many professionals who aren't in a gilded class.

On the other hand, some teachers most definitely deserve to be very highly paid, based on their dedication and their talent. The problem, again, is the union, which won't let us pay them what they deserve in order to make sure that other teachers get paid what they don't deserve.

The unions go away when teachers stop supporting them and assenting to their tactics and worldview.

losing interest, I am a public school teacher. And although I find it hard to believe, I guess you can call me a veteran, having taught for 17 years now. I must state emphatically that I am paid very well. Yes, I work long hours, much longer than any contract suggests. But I also have the option of saying "not tonight" when I am exhausted or in need of a break. I am not working today, nor tomorrow or Friday because of Thanksgiving. I have a week and a half at Christmas, a week in February, another in April, and 10 weeks in the summer. Compare that to any vacation schedule in the private sector. I also receive some of the best benefits available anywhere, and as you get older, you realize just how important these benefits are! And we could talk forever about job security.

I love my job, and enjoy spending the extra hours providing the most I can to the kids who deserve it. I appreciate your passion "losing", but please don't let that lead you to whining and complaining. We have great jobs, and our pay and benefits are more than fair.

On the flip side we must learn to ignore some. Their hostility reveals how little they know about the profession. Teaching is a very difficult job, emotionally and physically, and certainly not a profession where success is easy. Reasonable people outside education often say "I could never do your job" and they are probably right. I feel the same way about nursing, or retail management, or carpentry, or firefighting. I could never do those jobs, but thankfully there are people who can and do.

As a final note, I think we can "just get rid of it" in some ways. Teachers should demand from their unions that we rewrite contracts from scratch. The should be minimal, a couple of pages, and focus mostly on salary and basic working conditions. Contracts today are bloated with every little detail about our jobs, right down to the exact minute. We should allow our communities to restructure our school days so that they are most beneficial to kids. The starting point for each new contract shouldn't be what was negotiated last time, but a fresh start from square one. We cannot allow contracts to put what's best for teachers before what's best for students.

I'm impressed that Pat Crowley is on this thread. I'm not sure if this is naive or not, but I would really like his input - seriously - on what he thinks need to be done to improve education in this state, especially given the constraints at hand. If he is interested, can we start another post on this?

Laughable,.. why would you want his input?

All Mr. Crowley does is spread gossip and slander about anyone he can.

what a joke.. his input lol