June 24, 2009
The Clarity of the Point Is the Point Itself on Marriage
In a letter responding to my recent op-ed on same-sex marriage, Peter Asen does the service of illustrating why opposition to same-sex marriage is not the same as anti-gay bigotry. Readers should be apprised of the fact that I did not argue that homosexuality should be hidden from view. Rather, I suggested that marriage should remain an opposite-sex relationship that is fundamentally procreative in its meaning.
The Providence Journal was helpful in titling Asen's letter, "Boys already see gay pairs holding hands." Boys also see friends hugging and siblings kissing. My point was not that children cannot process the reality of differing relationships; it was that they should understand marriage to be uniquely intended for relationships that tend to have as an outcome (and typically an intention) the creation of children.
Asen misinterprets my point to be that girls and boys will grow up wanting to marry their friends, as if by first option. To be honest, I don't find it difficult to imagine older women bequeathing the honor on their dearest friends or young men finding it financially advantageous to sign each other up as spouses. A variety of circumstances might provide incentives — in a nation and culture of loose divorce rules — to enter into marriage, from work benefits to immigration policy.
That is not, however, my central concern, nor was it the argument of my op-ed. In a society with a multitude of relationship types, it remains true that children will eventually have to be told why they can't (or shouldn't) marry their friends, and with the innovation of same-sex marriage, the explanation can no longer include the fact that husbands and wives tend to make each other mommies and daddies. They won't, for that reason, conclude that marrying a pal is equivalent to marrying a lover, but they will, at the deep level of understanding what is just true, have a different sense of what it means to transform a lover into a spouse.
FWIW, it's also probably worth noting (though the ProJo didn't) that Peter Asen is interim director of Ocean State Action.
Posted by: Marc at June 24, 2009 2:26 PM....And the ProJo should have known, they reported on it!
Posted by: Marc at June 24, 2009 2:35 PM...and was formerly at MERI, which is certainly worth noting. Asen isn't simply an "average RIer", he's been a pro-Gay Marriage activist. That should warrant a disclosure by the ProJo editorial staff.
(Note: this actually has little to do with Asen--I'm commenting more on the shoddy attribution work at the Journal. It happens all the time, on both sides of the ideological spectrum).
Posted by: Marc at June 24, 2009 2:42 PMI know of 3 people named Peter Asen, all of them from Providence, one is a college student,one a high school student, the third works for my husband
and is not any kind of activist,any one of them could have penned that LTE, cosidering their age group ?
In Justins letter Projo did not,but should have,identified Justin as Rhode Islands formost anti-gay rights crusader.All the folks at Projo had to do, was google "justin katz" and they would have found Justins anti-gay articles and a lot of hateful coments by kooks like mike,and many others, that Justin could have erased,but chose not to.
Posted by: Joyce at June 24, 2009 8:51 PMI could erase your comment, but I will not. Does that contribute to my anti-Justin bigotry?
Posted by: Justin Katz at June 24, 2009 8:55 PMI'm not sure,but I think Peter Asen was the individual who got up to testify at an E-verify hearing in the House and demanded that Terry Gorman apologize for his testimony.
What an arrogant ass.If that wasn't Peter Asen,then I certainly do apologize in advance.
Joe Bernstien
Maaybe you should make sure before you
comment,then you would not have to apologize "in advance"
Terry Gorman is a white supremacist,just
like the folks at the Arian Nation and the KKK,most of his testimony is nothing
but bigoted lies, in my opinion.
Joyce-you are slandering a man you probably don't know personally.
His testimony is representative of mainstream thought held by many people in this country.
You can't even spell correctly,but you sure know how to throw lies about people.
You sound like an open-borders advocate.
Go peddle your garbage on a site where it will be appreciated,like RI Future.
Some people there have used a lot of hate speech directed at Mr.Gorman,as you have here.That's right -hate speech-people like you are really good at it.
Your ignorant comment tells me I probably have referred to the right Peter Asen,who has a lot of entries on the blog I mentioned.
Ocean State Action is a cancer on this state.
Terry Gorman a white surpremist? That is beyond laughable. Joyce is part of the group that thinks the laws of our land are mearly a suggestion. Joyce go sell you foolishness at RIF, you're a perfect fit there.
Posted by: kathy at June 25, 2009 3:58 PMThis Joyce couldn't be Joyce Katzberg,perchance,could it?
Or maybe it's just a made up name like a few other left wing snipers here.
I have been off-line for three years and come back to find my name being used by Mr. Bernstein, who, to my knowledge I have never met. I have never listened to the Matt Allen show or contributed to this comment board before now. I am surprised to find you trying to put words in my mouth and assigning motives to me that are not my own. Talk about snipers. This is what passes for political discussion?
Seems the more things change, the more they stay the same. Left wing - right wing - same bird. Time for folks to wake up and smell the rising tide. We are all in this together, like it or not - believe it or not. If we can step outside of rote ranting, name calling and political parrotry, we just might start to engage in actual dialogue or multi-logue. I've had enough of the blah-blah-blah on the airwaves - raising hate energy to boost ratings. Maybe I'll just unplug my computer again and go read George Orwell. "Those who control the past control the future -those who control the present control the past".
I just thought I should correct this little piece of disinformation.
Good luck to all of you.
Posted by: Joyce Katzberg at July 28, 2009 10:23 PM