Old trick. Set up a bogey man. Pin him to whatever social reform that you happen to dislike, and use him to frighten the public so that it will pull against its own interests. It used to work in the segregated South and it finds favor with fascist oriented people.
The health care system currently in effect has 48,000,000 of our citizens (18% of the population between 18 and 65) excluded from insurance, and all you offer is bogey man tactics in an attempt to derationalize the debate and substitute fear for argument. Booooo!
OldTimeLefty
"I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care plans."
"A single payer health care plan, universal health care plan. That's what I'd like to see."
Yup, clearly these comments by President Obama have simply been taken out of context.
Monique,
I'd accuse you of distorting the truth if you were intelligent enough to recognize the truth in the first place. Here is a quote from the President on the subject.
What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I’ll be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe — and I’ve even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief — that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I’m trying to bring about government-run health care, know this — they are not telling the truth.
What part of this quote urges a single payer system? The president has said that he prefers one. So do I and millions of others, but I'm becoming reconciled to accepting a half a loaf. I don't have a crystal ball and therefore no definitive knowledge of the future. I hope we get to a single payer system eventually, but there is none on the legislative horizon. So put single payer back in your closet of hysterical fears and try to stick with the reality of the political situation.
OldTimeLefty
How many times does the 48 million (used to be 47 million) number need to be debunked!?@
According to the Census Bureau, of that 47 million, 38 percent of them (18 million) have personal incomes of more than $50,000 a year. This means that they can afford coverage, and choose not to purchase it.
Now that leaves us with 29 million uninsured left to explain.
Of that 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even citizens. They wouldn't be able to be covered by private health insurers because they do not possess citizenship. Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure. However, for the sake of argument, let us go with the most conservative figure.
Subtract the 12.6 number from the remaining 29 million uninsured number, and we come to the next stage of our breakdown, 16.4 million uninsured.
Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up.
So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because they think that they won't get sick. The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up.
Is there anything more pathetic than when someone acts all self-righteous and arrogant when the reality is that they are just plain wrong?
And then there’s the direct correlation between the people that use name-calling, hyperbole and simplistic rhetoric and intellectually dishonest arguments used by those same people?
Three words - Old Time Lefty
(not to mention Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Moore, etc.)
But as I come here for coherent and reasoned political debate, I choose to digress:
Per his comments, Obama is in favor of a single-payer system but the legislation is not a single-payer system and has no intention of being a single system. It’s just another competitive option. And it’s dishonest to confuse it with government-run healthcare.
And you believe he is telling the truth. I guess because all liberal Democrats tell the truth. Just conservative Republicans lie.
You just called people stupid who actually called what Obama is proposing a catalyst towards a single-payer system. Yes, anyone who could possibly believe that is very stupid.
If only we could open our eyes and see what you see …
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Old trick. Set up a bogey man. Pin him to whatever social reform that you happen to dislike, and use him to frighten the public so that it will pull against its own interests. It used to work in the segregated South and it finds favor with fascist oriented people.
The health care system currently in effect has 48,000,000 of our citizens (18% of the population between 18 and 65) excluded from insurance, and all you offer is bogey man tactics in an attempt to derationalize the debate and substitute fear for argument. Booooo!
Posted by: OldTimeLefty at August 4, 2009 11:55 AMOldTimeLefty
"I happen to be a proponent of single-payer, universal health care plans."
"A single payer health care plan, universal health care plan. That's what I'd like to see."
Yup, clearly these comments by President Obama have simply been taken out of context.
Posted by: Monique at August 4, 2009 1:06 PMMonique,
What part of this quote urges a single payer system? The president has said that he prefers one. So do I and millions of others, but I'm becoming reconciled to accepting a half a loaf. I don't have a crystal ball and therefore no definitive knowledge of the future. I hope we get to a single payer system eventually, but there is none on the legislative horizon. So put single payer back in your closet of hysterical fears and try to stick with the reality of the political situation.I'd accuse you of distorting the truth if you were intelligent enough to recognize the truth in the first place. Here is a quote from the President on the subject.
OldTimeLefty
Posted by: OldTimeLefty at August 4, 2009 2:16 PMHow many times does the 48 million (used to be 47 million) number need to be debunked!?@
According to the Census Bureau, of that 47 million, 38 percent of them (18 million) have personal incomes of more than $50,000 a year. This means that they can afford coverage, and choose not to purchase it.
Now that leaves us with 29 million uninsured left to explain.
Of that 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even citizens. They wouldn't be able to be covered by private health insurers because they do not possess citizenship. Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure. However, for the sake of argument, let us go with the most conservative figure.
Subtract the 12.6 number from the remaining 29 million uninsured number, and we come to the next stage of our breakdown, 16.4 million uninsured.
Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up.
So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because they think that they won't get sick. The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up.
Posted by: Brian at August 4, 2009 3:57 PMIs there anything more pathetic than when someone acts all self-righteous and arrogant when the reality is that they are just plain wrong?
And then there’s the direct correlation between the people that use name-calling, hyperbole and simplistic rhetoric and intellectually dishonest arguments used by those same people?
Three words - Old Time Lefty
(not to mention Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Moore, etc.)
But as I come here for coherent and reasoned political debate, I choose to digress:
Per his comments, Obama is in favor of a single-payer system but the legislation is not a single-payer system and has no intention of being a single system. It’s just another competitive option. And it’s dishonest to confuse it with government-run healthcare.
And you believe he is telling the truth. I guess because all liberal Democrats tell the truth. Just conservative Republicans lie.
You just called people stupid who actually called what Obama is proposing a catalyst towards a single-payer system. Yes, anyone who could possibly believe that is very stupid.
If only we could open our eyes and see what you see …
Posted by: msteven at August 4, 2009 4:36 PM