Question that needs to be asked: How valid is the data?

Do any of you realize that students have absolutely ZERO "ownership' for NECAP testing!

Most do not care one iota how they do or in their schools performance!

The SAME test is given to ALL students be they Special Ed or College Prep!

The schools are scored based upon the total school population, i.e. those3 who do not take the test are factored into the overall score.

The scores of those who just "fill in the bubble" are counted as much as those who actually put in an effort.

I have observed first hand students come in to take a Math Exam without a calculator or pencil despite having been instructed to do so.

Imagine students who "complete" a two hour exam in 15 minutes? And you expect a passing score? Proficiency? Give me a break!

What score do you expect from a student who has been absent for 68 days for far this year? Better yet, they’ve missed most of the morning Math classes for an entire semester because they “can’t get up in the morning.”

They take the same NECAP test as the other students. Proficiency? Give me a break!

You can only do so much in this environment…..

Sorry for the typos....

Let’s try this again……

Question that needs to be asked: How valid is the data?

Do any of you realize that students have absolutely ZERO "ownership' for NECAP testing! Since the test does not “count” for anything, for many the attitude is “why bother?”

Most do not care one iota how they do or in their school’s performance!

The SAME test is given to ALL students be they Special Ed or College Prep!

By the way, RIDE’s tests are at least the “college prep” level…. Prefect way to test the “average” student…..

The schools are scored based upon the total school population, i.e. those who do not take the test are factored into the overall score.

The scores of those who just "fill in the bubble" are counted as much as those who actually put in an effort.

I have observed first hand students come in to take a Math Exam without a calculator or pencil despite having been instructed to do so.

Imagine students who "complete" a two hour exam in 15 minutes? And you expect a passing score? Proficiency? Give me a break!

What score do you expect from a student who has been absent for 68 days so far this year? Better yet, they’ve missed most of the morning Math classes for an entire semester because they “can’t get up in the morning.”

They take the same NECAP test as the other students. Proficiency? Give me a break!

You can only do so much in this environment…..

You are most welcome to visit my classroom any time….

How many of the students that scored less-than-proficient on their 11th grade NECAPs for reasons of not trying -- that you seem to be saying that the school systems are too good for -- performed proficiently-or-better on their 8th grade NECAPs? That's the answer to your general question.

Or, to approach the question from the direction of the specific to the general, what is it that would make students in Johnston care much less about their NECAP tests than students in communities with a similar level of academic achievement? Are you willing to claim that school district effects, and that teaching in particular, obviously played no role in the increase between the 8th and 11th grades of 634 students who scored proficient-or-better in Providence, or in the increase of 112 students scoring proficient-or-better in Woonsocket?

Try demographics….

I had one student several years ago that I believed was a “self transfer” from Providence.

She would do A quality work when in class.

Unfortunately, she was missing for more than half the year. I assumed that she was from a family that was here in an “undocumented” capacity and left it at that… Despite the quality of her work, there was no way she could obtain a passing grade given the amount of work that she missed. I believe the same rang true for her other classes as well as NECAP….

Demographics and the Family play a key role it a student’s performance. Something that the NECAP does NOT take into consideration….

In the 8th grade students are still in a learning mode. By HS there are way too many distractions and for many students, learning often falls by the wayside. It is more important to have the latest fashions, iPod and a cell phone, even if the latter two are prohibited, than to achieve good grades.

For many HS becomes more of a social experience more than an opportunity to advance. Don’t get me wrong, there are many who are excellent students but they are outnumbered by those who are there only because they have to be there.

Many don’t eat breakfast even though it is free because they don’t get up in time!!! I know of one student that has an IEP requiring the school to call the home to ensure they are awake. You can only do so much in this environment…..

Again, you are most welcome to visit my classroom any time…. Until you have been in the classroom for a sometime, do not assume all is well nor that teachers are not trying.

Cell phone, Yes! Pens or pencils? What, are you kidding me! You have to witness what actually goes on before you can provide cogent comments or offer advice as to what needs to be done…..

Aldo, question for you. Why does only RI have this problem? MA or CT or NY or even Oklahoma doesn't have this problem?

Answer they do, everyone does. So that argument is all evened out.

And if there's nothing the teachers can do for these kids, then why do we spend upwards of $75,000 a year, plus benefits for these teachers? Why not just hire babysitters at $20 an hour?

"Why not just hire babysitters at $20 an hour?"

That's what Gist SHOULD do....

It's a fifteen minute walk from CF High to Tollman in Pawtucket, a district that's looking to close schools soon, a district that's slightly-less of a failure.

I'm thinking that Pawtucket should absorb CFHS students at great savings to the state and great benefit to the students.

Hey Guys, I realize we are little out of the way, but what ever happened to us in all your figuring? I speak of Block Island. Probably not much better and maybe worse, but why were we left out?

Everett,

No sleight intended. However, the data source that I used doesn't give the 11th-grade results for New Shoreham for NECAP years 2008 or 2009. I can see that 6 students took the test in 2008 and that 7 did in 2009, but that's it!

Aldo,

I'm not assuming that everything is fine nor that people are not trying. I am trying to develop a sense of the gains and losses that are possible over a multi-year period of time. Over three years, would it be reasonable to expect a district to move 20% of non-proficient students to proficiency (as several districts appear to have done in this data)? Could Central Falls, on a regular basis, increase its number of proficient students more than the 10% of non-proficient students, like Woonsocket and Providence did? (And I think I'm being much more sensible than Federal policymakers, who I believe want 100% of students proficient by 2014, no matter what the starting point is).

You seem to be saying that assessing the problem in this way is not possible, but are relying heavily on arguments that while they may apply to single-point in time data, do not necessarily to comparisons of student populations across time.