Sorry, I just hate all broad generalizations. I hate being called a KKK member or Dittohead or ardent Bush follower or anything else, simply because I'm a Republican. There are vast differences in any party, people all over the spectrum. There were a good number of Congressional Democrats that voted against this bill. Would we lump them in with the "Social Democrats"?

The real problem is we only have two parties in this country. It's not really indicative of how the people think. We need a great many more. (10?) There's too much power in the hands of too few. With more parties, the power would potentially be more spread out. But unfortunately, as a friend mentioned the other day, Americans like a good rivalry between just two, like Red Sox vs. Yankees. It's not Red Sox vs. Yankees, Orioles, Rays, Jays, Royals, A's, Rangers, Marineres. People like an "us or them" kind of thing.

I like the term Social Democrat. What it means to me is a system of Democracy where the social (general) welfare and happiness of the people is a major part of policy.

I heard an interesting little bit on the radio yesterday. The host was discussing the name calling - like the right calling Obama Socialists, Communists, etc.

The host made the point that most people who identify with a movement or party are PROUD to label themselves as such. For instance, Justin is probably proud to call himself a republican and conservative. Therefore, name calling is really in vain. If I was a communist, I would admit so and be proud of it (I'm not, but the commies in America stand up and call themselves that).

As Patrick says, KKK and John Birchers also are proud of their affiliations. It wasn't this way years ago - they all had to hide. But it is today.

So, don't take offense. If you are a John Bircher or a Birther or anti-democracy or racist...you are probably proud of it and would admit it.

Interesting point, I thought.

So, yeah, I'm very much a liberal, progressive Social Democrat. At the same time, I am fiscally conservative (very!), anti-war and pro-life (but would never foster it on others).

I am also socially liberal - libertarian, you might say, to the max. For instance, I think heroin and cocaine and X and pot should all be legal - they are in Portugal with good results (considered a medical problem there).

If people take the time, they'd probably find out they are somewhat alike in many matters. But too many are doing the "dittos" think with radio talk show hosts and therefore thinking they have to be a certain way.

Of course, the question becomes then what we would call the far right of Beck, Michelle Bachman, Rush and friends?

Using the same logic, we would probably call them Fascists (for corporate control of state), but even that is not descriptive.

Would it be fair to call the far right - which was in power (it's not an abstraction!), totalitarians? Authoritarians?

I think so, and that is not meant as a slur either. The entire concept of "you are with us or against us" and "be very scared of the terrorists under your bed" and "we will protect you, just give us your money and your rights" seems to fit the mold.

What do you think, Justin? I'm not talking about you, but the right as expressed by the Bush admin and the GOP of today - who are arguably even further right than Bush.

These numbers all come from a brand-new Harris poll,
67 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a socialist.

The belief that Obama is a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.

57 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a Muslim
45 percent of Republicans agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
38 percent of Republicans say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
24 percent of Republicans say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."

Republicans really have their panties in a bunch over this president!

"there is no longer any difference between what is now known as the Democratic party and the Social Democratic parties of Europe"

Rage and scorn? More like howls of laughter! No difference?! The Democratic Party would be center-right in nearly all European countries (granted many Third Way democrats are essentially right of center). To say otherwise is to deliberately mislead.

Renaming parties...not a place the right wants to go. I'll leave it at that.

"Renaming parties...not a place the right wants to go. I'll leave it at that."

Yes, who on the right would do that to the "Democrat" Party?

Gee Rhody, that sounds like a threat.

Just like the peace-loving, tolerant, open-minded, free-speech-supporting Leftists who brandished rocks and sticks and threatened to riot unless Ann Coulter's speech in Ontario was cancelled.

I call the Democrats the Statist Party, which is doing them a favor. They could as justly be called the National Socialists, with all the implications of the rich history of that name.

"I'm not talking about you, but the right as expressed by the Bush admin and the GOP of today - who are arguably even further right than Bush"

Further to the right? Has the government ever grown more during a Republican presidency than under Bush? I don't know that hard-core right wing people were big fans of Bush's spending policies. Because Clinton got the country to a balanced budget, could we say that Clinton was more conservative than Bush? Even if Clinton had the dot com boom and all kinds of revenue, at least he didn't overspend it somewhere unnecessarily.

There you go again with the Big Lie strategy. Anyone who has read the history knows that the Socialists, Progressives, Fascists and Communists are all full siblings and have exactly the same core beliefs.

The correct spectrum is not Communists and Socialists on the left and Fascists on the right. That in fact is a meme that was spread by KGB propaganda beginning right after WWII. The correct spectrum is Statism on the left and Anarchy on the right. America's constitutional system is about halfway between right end and the center of that spectrum. Everything on the Left is about government authority over an obedient people - or an imprisoned or murdered people.

I refuse to allow the Leftists to distort the argument by beginning with lies and false premises.

>>"These numbers all come from a brand-new Harris poll,
67 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a socialist." "Republicans really have their panties in a bunch over this president!"

Well Giselle, it appears that the average Republican is far better informed than the average Democrat / ABC - NBC - CBS -MSNBC watcher / RI Future acolyte. Read these and discover that the Republicans (and any mainstream American) have a valid concerns regarding Obama (to put it mildly):

Investors Business Daily:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/SpecialReport.aspx?id=516621

The Obama File (first of a series):

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/01/obama-file-1-forget-islam-look-at.html

Ragin, you must have missed the science which stated that conservatives are dumber than liberals....science which was put together by actual scientists. I'll let you look it up in order to expand your own intelligence.

C'mon, Bob. Germany was racist, violent, mob mentality, war mongers, corporate controlled, etc. in WWII. Those are tendencies of the right in this country - clear as day! We went heavily in that direction under Bush/Cheney, from torture to cries to wipe out all Muslims, to removal of our right, tossing out anyone who dared oppose constant war, etc. etc.

Clear as day, my friend. If the Repubs want to be known as something other than what they did and represent, please ask them to actually support things which result in more freedom. Have them start by repealing the Patriot Act, then go onto getting religion out of our government. Then have then end their War on Drug....get back to me when their changes are underway.

Nah, the party of Michael Steel is purely and 100% corporate and church controlled....maybe with the exception of Ron Paul. But you can't count less than 1% of the GOP as being their true direction or platform.

We have to remember the entire concept of modern conservatism. It has to do with looking to the past. You know, the past which didn't have womens rights, voting rights, civil rights, environmental controls and all those other progressive things.

And, yes, Russ is 100% correct. I know European conservatives - very wealthy top of the heap types who hate socialism.....BUT, they are to the LEFT of me! They would never give up their pensions (very juicy), their time off, their free health care and other such benefits. A European conservative is about the same as Dennis Kucinich. Our Democrat are far to the right of center.

"Anyone who has read the history knows that the Socialists, Progressives, Fascists and Communists are all full siblings and have exactly the same core beliefs."

I feel bad for folks that have bought into that ridiculous wing-nut talking point. The actual history is so much more interesting than the truthiness.

"Ragin, you must have missed the science which stated that conservatives are dumber than liberals....science which was put together by actual scientists. I'll let you look it up in order to expand your own intelligence."

Hey Justin, when are you guys at AR going to reach your limit and punt Stuart The Troll back to Daily Kos where he belongs?

Of course, all the death threats now against members of Congress are more evidence of what we should call the tea party and the neo-conservative movements!

Brown Shirts is what I find the most apt description. These people are rude, uncivil, uneducated, crass and have nothing to do with a real free people. They are the mob our founders so feared.

The silence I hear on this site about the violent behavior of the right says something quite loud.

Social Democrats did a great job in Europe,didn't they?They created a class of eloi who are supported by imported workers who hate them and despise them,and I have to say I will have no sympathy when the "guest workers" these "leftists"have treated as less than human start outpopulating them and treat them like food animals.
"Klaus"over at kmareka,a Stuart clone(or vice versa)once extolled the European lifestyle-LOTS of time off,a short workday,"dining"-all very nice.Why don't Russ and Stuart go live in Europe if it's so great?we treat illegal aliens here with more respect than Europeans(or Israelis for that matter)treat "guest workers".at least here,if an illegal alien has a kid,that kid is a US Citizen.I disagree with many others on the right insofar as I wouldn't change that.We can't descend into the European attitude or the Israeli attitude that if you're born here to the wrong kind of parents,you're not a Citizen.We can never have two classes of people born here.The answer is better border security and better interior enforcement.
Oh,and Stuart is a libertarian.Bullsh*t!!
He seems to support oppressive firearms laws.
I'm also a little tired of being told who I listen to on radio and where I get my ideas.I am generally unimpressed by hucksters like Michael(Weiner)Savage and Rush Limbaugh who want to sell you their books and gold futures.
The term "Eurotrash" didn't come out of thin air.I'm much more welcoming to hardworking Africans and Asians who want to don the mantle of Americanism.
East Europeans are not targets of my disdain.They were truly f*cked over by the Nazis and Communists for a long time and they are nothing like the degenerate dilettantes and sybarites of Western Europe.

Chris,

Left-wing lunacy isn't among the criteria by which we determine comments invalid. It's helpful (and often humorous) to have experience with such content. My advice regarding all trolls (as the blogosphere saying goes): don't feed them.

Chris, smear and censorship by any means necessary is the poison gameplan of the left. We love letting the loony lefties bloviate on blogs, on their state run news programs, in their state run newspapers etc. Let them talk! They hurt their own cause when they do.
We on the right have the facts and the truth on our side and that's why the left obsesses over right leaning media. OBSESSES over the political right having media voice in this country. Please note all the references to Rush, Glenn Beck, Fox News etc. when these loons are blogging.
It's hilarious!! Let 'em speak and enjoy the laugh Chris. It has to bring a smile to your face knowing how Stuey and Russ will suffer and suffer greatly under MarxistCare. They advocate for their own hardship and demise.
Now that is funny!! lol

Justin, the term "Social Democrat" is just too flowery and doesn't capture the nefarious heart of Obamanation.

You do have the truth on your side - the truth of the Bush/Cheney years, the violence and death threats we are seeing now, etc.

But it's just not the truth we thought represented this country.

It obviously is the one you guys go for - again, notice the lack of posts from Justin about all this stuff. I predict he will eventually mention it, and make excuses for it or call it other than what it is - extreme right wing violence.

But keep it up - you are giving us plenty of new video and talking points to show your "truths".

Stuart, Russ and the other Leftists here can scream, insult and lie all they want, but they are lying. Anyone who doesn't see that, please read the history of the Progressive movement.

The volume and length of your lying posts do not make your lies any less untrue.

"Has the government ever grown more during a Republican presidency than under Bush?"

sigh

These people who are making the threats should realize it's only a damned vote - what overreaction!
I was pissed that Bill Buckner let the ground ball go through his legs, but didn't use it as an excuse to cut the gas line at his house (as happened to the brother of a Dem congressman from Virginia).
And Beck...he won't be satisfied until someone dies.

I think you're out of line about Beck.Has he ever suggested something like that.You just don't care what you say,do you?The minute someone disagrees with you,they're a "threat"right?
Did it bother you in the least when that leftist whore,Randi Rhodes wished out loud for Bush' assassination on Air America?The left made barely a peep.She was suspended for afew days.If someone did the same with Obama,they'd be gone permanently the next day and most likely in jail.

I give you the liberal mind.

"These people who are making the threats should realize it's only a damned vote - what overreaction!
I was pissed that Bill Buckner let the ground ball go through his legs, but didn't use it as an excuse to cut the gas line at his house (as happened to the brother of a Dem congressman from Virginia).
And Beck...he won't be satisfied until someone dies." (Rhody)

You can't make this stuff up. lol

Beck's recent obsession with guns and gun imagery.
Course he won't do it himself - he's just begging for the next Timothy McVeigh to rise up. And I don't think he really gives a damn if innocent people get hurt.

Joe, libs obsess over Beck, Rush, Sarah Palin et al to the point of hysteria. I think it's hilarious and so do Beck and Co. Did you read about the dust-up between James Cameron and Glenn Beck??
Cameron is unhinged and Beck is having a big laugh over it. Check it out on Drudge.
These libs are kooks. But I do give them credit for realizing just how dangerous the Beck's and Limbaugh's and Fox News' are. They are extremely dangerous for the left as they expose the leftist lies on a daily basis.

There goes old Rhody again, slandering Beck based on his opinion in spite of audio and video evidence that Beck is loudly preaching ANTI-violence.

The Democrats and their supporters have an extensive recent history of staging incidents themselves and blaming conservatives for it. It is a tactic recommended by Alinsky and used by the Soviets to falsely accuse dissidents. Without proof beyond a reasonable doubt, it is reasonable to expect that the Democrats are doing it in these cases.

Well, I guess the fact that many here are willing to defend Beck, Rush and Sarah is telling.

Let's be straight - they are simply all whores for money and attention. None of them have a single thing to do with making this country or the world better. They would spout whatever nonsense gave them money, because frankly none of them could possibly make a living any other way.

The idea that any of you actually listen to or watch them - means you are pretty much out of the real political conversation, IMHO.

So, enjoy your entertainment. The rest of us have actual lives.

Rhody-do you watch Beck a lot?I don't-he reminds me of Jimmy Swaggert,but sometimes he's right on the money as in the case of the two Border Patrolmen persecuted by the Bush administration and Van Jones.
If you don't like guns,don't own one.Simple enough.Just keep your nose out of what other people own.
The last THREE attempted assassinations of Presidents were done by (a)a Charlie Manson zombie(coo-coo,coo-coo)(b)a left wing activist and snitch for the FBI(c)another nut job with a crush on Jodie Foster(coo-coo,coo-coo).See where this is going?
McVeigh didn't use a gun.It was a truck bomb.I agree people shouldn't possess destructive devices unless they are for industrial use.

"A lot of right wingers are upset about health care reform because they think it'll cost a lot. Well just pretend its another unnecessary war"
Jay Leno

Beck is a morning zookeeper.
Howard Stern is also right a lot of the time. That doesn't mean anything. I could give a monkey a multiple choice test with 4 buttons and he will likely get 25% right.

In the case of "news" or even listening to someone to be informed in any way, please not that folks like Dan Rather were thrown under the bus for ONE instance where he may not have had enough proof of something. Leading writers and academics lose their careers over ONE instance of plagiarism. Yet folks like Beck can spout completely looney stuff until the cows come home, and are defended by the like of you as being "right sometimes".

I doubt you get the point, but maybe someone else does!

I get the point-it's on top of your head.
You think you're SO smart.Not.

rhody and stuart-someone SHOT at Eric Cantor's office-I kinda don't think it was the Tea Party-I have my money on your people.Some leftist/commies got uppity with guns in Winston-Salem years ago-the local klan/nazi scumbags wiped them out,but were acquitted.Apparently they didn't shoot first,just better.
There was a case where I could really hate both sides.