The corruption behind the global warming fraud and this cap-and-trade exchange may turn out to be the crime of the century and we're barely the first decade in.

So much for the selfless Leftists who only care about humanity. The only way they know of to make money is to create scams using the force of government to promote their own financial interests. Liars and thieves are their leaders, and their followers well-intentioned but ignorant dupes. As Lenin said, "useful idiots".

The practical problem now is, how do we educate these "useful idiots" out of their ignorance, remove the scales from their eyes, so to speak?

Maybe our resident rightie "conservatives" can explain how having BIG oil men as VP and Pres of the USA under them was not a massive corruption scheme?

Why $4.50 gas did not put money directly into their pockets?

Why WAR did not send billions into the company that Cheney was CEO of?

Why Cheney invited Ken Lay and all the Energy traders and bigwigs to a private meeting in the white house to set energy policy - and to this day will not release the records relating to it?

We could go on for volumes, but I have to assume that only relationships which are troubling to the right are those which they don't have their own dipsticks sitting it.

After what we saw from 2000-2008, it frankly would embarrass me to spew like Justin or Bob. After all, it is quite evident that Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) drove the last admin....heck, Enron, Exxon and many others had folks sitting in the White House and filling up ALL the think tanks (Heritage, AEI, etc).

Oh, thou hypocrites.....

By the way, I am invested in alternative energy. I am also invested in Oil. Is that a conflict of interest?

Hypocrites-your favorite word.I'm invested in neither and hold no brief for "5 Deferments" Cheney and his chickenhawk buddies.The difference I see is that the Cheney crew aren't holding themselves out as saviors of the Earth like the leftist cartel is.
Matter of fact,the CCX people are like some of those "preachers" who are just out to line their pockets while pretending holiness.Except their "religion"is the false notion that man can affect the environment in significant ways.There can be local effects to be sure,as abounded in the communist controlled areas of Eastern Europe before 1989.However,climate change and rising seas are probably the result of forces of nature beyond our control.Just check out the Iceland volcano and the ubiquitous earthquakes-man's activities are dwarfed by the presence of such forces.
So,Stuart,the people here are hypocrites?I don't think so.They aren't pretending to be one thing while actually being quite another.
Joel Rogers of the University of Wisconsin is a key player here.QAnd yes,I did get the info on him from Glenn Beck,although I'm hardly a Beck follower.I have to say Beck hits 'em out of the park sometimes,particularly with refernce to racist/communist Van Jones.
As far as your investments,I can't say if you're a hypocrite about those-I guess you're hungry for money like so many other people.Don't be ashamed-you always go on about being part of the leisure class.
BTW were you the Stuart who called Buddy Cianci the other day and got called a "brullon"?
I don't invest because I'm satisfied with what I have and really don't aspire to a "big" lifestyle-we sure can't take it with us.

Stuart, having suspiscions of big oil's tie to the Bush administration and believing that Cap and Trade is a scam to destroy America's sovereignty are not mutually exclusive sentiments.

I always enjoy the irony of a liar attempting to call me a hypocrite.

Yes, Joe - and Yes, Bob,

If one supports or supported the Bush admin and the modern conservative movement which was/is championed by Texas Big Oil interests, and then thinks it is some kind of amazing conflict of interest that public figures invest in alt energy (put their money where their mouth are)....then they are acting very hypocritical.

Saying it in terms the resident Bible Thumpers would understand "Cast the log out of thine own eye, before noticing the speck in the eye of thou brother!".....

No, I don't call Radio Shows, nor do I listen to such "entertainment".......

So, Bush/Cheny champion for oil companies which make hundreds of billions in actual profits in a few short years. That's OK.
BUT,
Some folks invest in alt energy and don't yet make a dime.....more likely lose money.....and that is not OK.

Please explain.

Stuart-read JP's comment.It hits the nail on the head.
And BTW,I never voted for Bush and hold him in low regard.He did nothing about immigration,started an unecessary war in Iraq,and listened to neocon a##holes on foreign policy.
Two gangs of scumbags CAN exist at the same time.
You will never get where I'm coming from.
I should've realized you'd avoid talk radio-you think think It's "entertainment"-truth is,our politicians are deaf and dismissive of their constituents,so it's the forum of the people.
The main stream media are virtually useless unless you want a movie schedule.

Joe,
How can you say that talk radio is the forum of the people after you said that our politicians don't listen to their constituents?

If it's a forum and no one in power is listening, you just have a bunch of people blowing smoke to no effect. If you think that talk radio has an effect on the electorate, how do you explain Obama's big win, except to say that you had a few people talking loudly, but ineffectively among themselves?

OldTimeLefty

Save your breath, Lefty......

These dudes actually think Rush and Beck believe the things they say, and that the 25 million a year they make for being morning zookeepers has nothing to do with what they spew.

I hope I never get stupid or old enough to actually listen to that drivel.

Actually,I listen to local talk radio.It is more informative than local tv or print media.
Stu-you like to think people who disagree with you are stupid.It says more about you than it does them.
I usually don't think people I consider internal enemies are stupid at all-just evil.Assuming the "other side"is stupid is what loses everything from wars to elections.
OTL-for some reason the politicians paid attention to talk radio during the attempt to pass the Kennedy-McCain immigration abomination.
What I meant was that our supposed representatives don't listen to individuals.Talk radio provides a megaphone to assist their deafness.
I sometimes see Beck on Fox.There's only so much of him I can take with his histrionics,but he does come up with some solid connetions that he demonstrates.The lefties don't piss themselves over Alex Jones because he sounds reeaally far out.Beck scare them a little,so they mock him.
Do you guys think a jerkoff smartass like Bill Maher makes sense?
Yeah,you probably do.Just like that know it all clever creep Rachel maddow.Oops,forgot Olbermann-he's just a lunatic.He and Rachel are pretty mild compared to Rusty Rhodes and Mike Malloy.
Ms.Rhodes actually suggested assassinating Bush,and she wasn't arrested.if someone did such a thing directed at Obama they'd be in Gitmo.

Good overall point Justin, about how crass issues like acquiring money and power and other goodies are at the root of our political and our capitalist culture. It is not very much about core values. You can see it plainly in your opponents. I guess you have a harder time in seeing it the same way in regards to the groups, institutions, and individuals that you affiliate with.

David, it has nothing to do with our "capitalist" culture. It has everything to do with corrupt political elites using the power of government to enrich themselves.

Most of the great "capitalists" in American history made their fortunes in spite of the government, not because of it. That is an essential difference that Leftists refuse to see, because it conflicts with their beliefs.

And no matter how many times the Leftists repeat their lies about Bush and Cheney, it will not make them any less false.

"Basically, these glimpses ought to be taken as reason to resist large, centralized government, especially at a global level." Justin Katz.

"And no matter how many times the Leftists repeat their lies about Bush and Cheney, it will not make them any less false." BOB(chickenlittle)N.

Do you remember the energy crisis in California? Enron? How about Cheney and his energy summit? Ken Lay- the next energy czar? I know Justin does not. A case of convenient amnesia.

Hey, David,

What do you expect from a guy who thinks Pink Floyd is a "conservative" right wing rock band?

"fuelled by Barrett's frequent adventures with LSD, the music soared into entirely uncharted sonic territory, combining the new pallet of distortion guitar with classically influenced organ and driving percussion"

Ha Ha Ha - Justin thinks LSD fueled music is conservative - heck, he thinks the sun coming up in the morning is a conservative statement, even if the sky around it is polluted by the "conservative" deregulation.

Funny Guy....... buries his head in the sand, and then somehow relates every subject in the world to his already made up conclusion.

Maybe a little LSD is in order to open up that Carpenters mind? A religious experience, to be sure!

Stuart-you come across as severely limited in some ways.When you don't like what someone says they're "funny"-you conveniently evade direct answers to things that make you uncomfortable.
And the "heck" and "y'all" ring very phony coming from you.
I'll tell you one thing-whatever I say here I've said directly to some of the people I criticize.
I am enjoying watching the left wingers on MSNBC trying to do damage control after they practically ejaculated in their shorts last night thinking the Times Square bomber would turn out to be a Tea Party member or something similar.
BTW the bomber is entitled to Miranda rights and a civilian trial-he is a US citizen arrested in the US.He was last admitted to the US legally(a US citizen can be charged with a misdemeanor for entering the US in an improper manner.It is mainly a law because it is a way to evade customs inspection).
The German submarine borne saboteurs of WW2 included a US citizen,but they were not entitlesd to a civilian trial because it was during a declared war and they were carrying out a military mission out of uniform.
OTOH Col.Rudolf Abel,a Russian military officer and spy,was entitled to a civilian trial because we were not in a declared war with the USSR and he was arrested in the US,and was trying to obtain secrets,not carry out a military operation(i.e. sabotage or terrorism)-It's not as simple as some would have it be.
The term "treason"gets thrown around.It is very hard to prosecute-look up the requirements.
Espionage is easy to prosecute by comparison-the Rosenbergs were traitors,but weren't charged with treason.Espionage is what made them crispy critters.

It's too bad that DavidS has sunk to the level of the other Leftists and merely calls people insulting nicknames rather than addressing the issue.

An honest analysis reveals that the Enron scandal, as the mortgage scandal, was not due to deregulation but was due to corrupt regulation by government that gamed the system and set up the exact schemes which the crooks exploited. Enron could not have ripped off California's energy users had there not been a government-mandated price-fixing system.

Facts are stubborn things, which is why Leftists rely on name-calling.

BobN,
Facts may be stubborn, but they are overwhelmed by your carefully studied ignorance. Why not spend some time and effort and inform us how the California government and the Federal government colluded to rip off California's energy users? Did the California State Government and the Federal government pocket the money, or was it the Enron executives? How much did the California State Government get; how much did the Federal government get. You might want to enlighten us with some facts and figures.
OldTimeLefty

Too lazy to even look up on Wikipedia, blowhard?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

BobN-- I apologize for the unwarranted tag-chickenlittle. We do indeed disagree. But there is no cause for name calling because of that disagreement. I would like to throw you a bone that you can really gnaw on.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/the-calm-cool-and-collected-president/?partner=rss&emc=rss

"Enron could not have ripped off California's energy users had there not been a government-mandated price-fixing system."

Exactly. And this is foreshadowing of what will happen with health care "reform" as the federal gov't mandates price-fixing aka price caps aka "cost controls" onto doctors, hospitals, clinics, labs.