Not Quite a "Barb"
Justin Katz
So, the President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in keeping with his usual subject matter, utilized the podium of the United Nations to call for investigation into the conspiracy theory that the United States was behind the 9/11 attacks. And I'm sure he's just a-fearin' all over after the response of our own president:
"It was offensive," Obama said in an interview with the Persian service of the BBC that was to be broadcast to the Iranian people. "It was hateful."
"And particularly for him to make the statement here in Manhattan, just a little north of ground zero, where families lost their loved ones, people of all faiths, all ethnicities who see this as the seminal tragedy of this generation, for him to make a statement like that was inexcusable," Obama said.
"Inexcusable" has to be among the most useless words in our era. Especially in the mouth of the current commander in chief, it requires no course of action from anybody and has no implicit threat. Indeed, we could reasonably suppose that the most hedged of apologies from Ahmadinejad would be met with a stumbling eagerness to excuse his comments.
Look, Ahmadinejad is the most prominent face of a theocratic tyranny who appears to revel in the civil bonds with which people whom he sees as his enemies bind themselves, and the United Nations is a band of bureaucrats whose purpose is to further hamstring those nations that are willing thus to be strung. What's truly inexcusable is that the United States offers unquestioning legitimacy to an organization that gives a globally respected platform to tyrants, including seats on laughable human rights committees and conferences designed to marginalize the world's one Jewish nation while they shake down wealthy countries to aid that may be siphoned to dictators' coffers.
"the seminal tragedy of this generation"
Dead wrong. Tragedies are accidents or acts of nature.
9/11 was a deliberate, murderous attack.
The little taxi driver met with Louis Farrakhan and the New Black Panther Party while he was here.I'm sure our leftist friends around here would have an excuse why that was a good thing.
Frankly,the best way to deal with the Iranian theocracy is a Hellfire missile paying a visit when they're all in one spot.Save a whole lot of needless deaths that will surely result from any conventional military action.
The taxi driver tweaks Obama's nose and laughs at his sputtering response.The Chinese are enjoying this,knowing that they can invade Taiwan or do any other damn thing they want and they can expect Obama will throw another impotent little hissy fit.
"Hellfire missile paying a visit when they're all in one spot."
We had our chance. He was just in the UN. Could have taken care of multiple problems at once.
During the Reagan administration, President Ronald Reagan and other senior U.S. officials SECRETLY facilitated the sale of arms to Iran, the subject of an arms embargo
Any of you folks actually read the speech?
1- Would it not have been sensible that first a thorough investigation should have been conducted by independent groups to conclusively identify the elements involved in the attack and then map out a rational plan to take measures against them?
2- Assuming the viewpoint of the American government, is it rational to launch a classic war through widespread deployment of troops that led to the death of hundreds of thousands of people to counter a terrorist group?
3- Was it not possible to act the way Iran countered the Riggi terrorist group who killed and wounded 400 innocent people in Iran . In the Iranian operation no innocent person was hurt.
The horror! How sad that our know-nothing and reactionary foreign policy make nutjobs like Ahmadinejad appear the voice of reason. Dismiss him all you like, but on the Muslim street the neo-con talking points and feigned outrage don't cut it.
There actually -are- plenty of people here in America who find it very suspicious that the 9/11 attacks quickly aligned a disgruntled and fractured public with gearing-up a war machine that worked so closely with the administration at the time.
I'm not one of them, but I know -plenty-. It's certainly not a majority.
From what I can tell, he was trying to say that what we -did- do was take advantage of the attacks and use them as an excuse to spice-up what would normally be a very unpalatable foreign policy. Everyone got up and walked-out on him before he could get to that part (and for good reason).
As for castigating Obama's handling of this... What is he supposed to do? There's nothing Obama said that would make you happy. Maybe he shouldn't have said anything. I suspect that the majority of this forum won't be happy until we're in a three-front war, all financed by Chinese money.
As far as I can tell, the Christian, Moral, and Fiscally Responsible thing to do is to just ignore this bozo. Maybe I missed the scripture on 'shooting missiles at people who talk sh*t', I was busy practicing this whole 'cheek-turning' thing.*
* I actually was, I got randomly punched in the face while waiting for a cab downtown on Saturday night. Out of nowhere, this random guy just popped me in the nose. Interestingly, that's the -third- time in my life that I've been randomly attacked in Kennedy Plaza. And they wonder why people don't ride the bus.
"As for castigating Obama's handling of this... What is he supposed to do? There's nothing Obama said that would make you happy. Maybe he shouldn't have said anything. I suspect that the majority of this forum won't be happy until we're in a three-front war, all financed by Chinese money.
As far as I can tell, the Christian, Moral, and Fiscally Responsible thing to do is to just ignore this bozo. Maybe I missed the scripture on 'shooting missiles at people who talk sh*t', I was busy practicing this whole 'cheek-turning' thing.*
Mangeek. Yes. I feel the same way. I was born into a country that I will defend. That is the essence of patriotic expression. I will defend my family, friends and neighbors and countrymen. But I will not and cannot defend an empire beyond our homeland built on oil money and looting and thuggery that enriches a few and hurts most of us. You may disagree and claim your American right to do whatever. I have grown up in this country always knowing my advantages. They are a blessing and a curse. There is someone like me –right now – in a forsaken country- that will see their patriotic mission quite differently than but also quite the same as ours. Sometimes I find myself seeing more commonground with them than the us.
Hey Russ-I knew we'd hear from you again.It was like pouring a mixture of Colman's Powdered Mustard and water into a nightcrawler hole.They pop right up.
Same to you Sammy.
David S-then pack up and move in with your friends over "there",wherever that is.I will never understand why some people like you feel guilty over being Americans.
The point I was making,David(and mangeek) is simply that we could avoid a war by wiping out the ruling clique in Iran.The Iranian people don't need carpet bombing.If some proactive killing had been used previously in history,millions of lives could've been saved at the cost(?) of a few scumbags.
I really don't want to see another war fought by Americans in some Third World sh*thole.
BTW the quickest path to peace is to draft those kids from Brown,Harvard,etc.the wars would stop in two days.
Maybe DavidS doesn't feel guilty. Maybe he wonders about what sort of kinship exists between himself and war profiteers like Cheney or trust funders like Bush. Wealth and wage disparity is at it's highest level since 1979 seperating those who produce and those who profit from the workers increased productivity. The top 20 per cent now own 50 per cent of the wealth while the bottom 20 per cent just 3 per cent. Now that's a strong incentive for the lower classes to want to fight the wars for the top 20.
Love it or leave it indeed.
Then David should beef about Cheney,not the Unted States.
I hate Cheney.A draft dodging turd who likes wars fought with other peoples' bodies and minds.
So don't bother throwing red herrings(or quahogs in your case)at me when I find people badmotuhing their country.
And the trust fund thing?We are plagued with trust fund babies like Sheldon and Linc Chafee who "know"what's best for us groundlings.
I am very grateful that my family came here a little over a century ago,because otherwise I wouldn't have existed since my forebears would have been turned into mulch by the Nazis instead of being able to serve in WW2 on our side.
Of course,according to the Iranian leadership that never happened.
Right now,I believe the government is in evil hands,but that's not my country that I'm angry at-just those people like Eric Holder,Nancy Pelosi,et al.
Joe wrote:
"The point I was making,David(and mangeek) is simply that we could avoid a war by wiping out the ruling clique in Iran."
Sorry Joe, but do you mean just like in Iraq? We wiped out the ruler Saddam Hussein and then avoided a war? It didn't quite work that way. Saddam has been toppled for quite a few years now and the supposed combat activity just ended last month? And it would seem that Iran is capable of putting up more of a fight than Iraq.
I don't suggest invading Iran.An invasion is a sure fire way to get tied up in a costly war like we did in Iraq.
I don't know if what I'm suggesting would work,but removing the top echelon in one shot would destabilize the theocracy.
Remember the mass show of discontent after the taxi driver was "re-elected"?
Iran is ready for an internal revolution.The vast majority of Iranians are neither religious fanatics nor anti-Western.Iran is not an artificial construct like Iraq,Syria,Lebanon,Jordan,or Israel.
Don't worry,Obama probably doesn't read AR to get my opinion.
russ-you seriously suggest that Ahmedinajad is a nut job?Hardly.He is a fanatic,and that's different.
Idi Amin was a nutjob.The taxi driver speaks for the mullahs.They aren't crazy either-just religious fanatics again.
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"the seminal tragedy of this generation"
Dead wrong. Tragedies are accidents or acts of nature.
9/11 was a deliberate, murderous attack.
Posted by: Monique at September 28, 2010 6:58 AMThe little taxi driver met with Louis Farrakhan and the New Black Panther Party while he was here.I'm sure our leftist friends around here would have an excuse why that was a good thing.
Posted by: joe bernstein at September 28, 2010 6:59 AMFrankly,the best way to deal with the Iranian theocracy is a Hellfire missile paying a visit when they're all in one spot.Save a whole lot of needless deaths that will surely result from any conventional military action.
The taxi driver tweaks Obama's nose and laughs at his sputtering response.The Chinese are enjoying this,knowing that they can invade Taiwan or do any other damn thing they want and they can expect Obama will throw another impotent little hissy fit.
"Hellfire missile paying a visit when they're all in one spot."
We had our chance. He was just in the UN. Could have taken care of multiple problems at once.
Posted by: Patrick at September 28, 2010 9:04 AMDuring the Reagan administration, President Ronald Reagan and other senior U.S. officials SECRETLY facilitated the sale of arms to Iran, the subject of an arms embargo
Posted by: Sammy at September 28, 2010 9:48 AMAny of you folks actually read the speech?
The horror! How sad that our know-nothing and reactionary foreign policy make nutjobs like Ahmadinejad appear the voice of reason. Dismiss him all you like, but on the Muslim street the neo-con talking points and feigned outrage don't cut it.
Posted by: Russ at September 28, 2010 12:27 PMThere actually -are- plenty of people here in America who find it very suspicious that the 9/11 attacks quickly aligned a disgruntled and fractured public with gearing-up a war machine that worked so closely with the administration at the time.
I'm not one of them, but I know -plenty-. It's certainly not a majority.
From what I can tell, he was trying to say that what we -did- do was take advantage of the attacks and use them as an excuse to spice-up what would normally be a very unpalatable foreign policy. Everyone got up and walked-out on him before he could get to that part (and for good reason).
As for castigating Obama's handling of this... What is he supposed to do? There's nothing Obama said that would make you happy. Maybe he shouldn't have said anything. I suspect that the majority of this forum won't be happy until we're in a three-front war, all financed by Chinese money.
As far as I can tell, the Christian, Moral, and Fiscally Responsible thing to do is to just ignore this bozo. Maybe I missed the scripture on 'shooting missiles at people who talk sh*t', I was busy practicing this whole 'cheek-turning' thing.*
Posted by: mangeek at September 28, 2010 1:00 PM* I actually was, I got randomly punched in the face while waiting for a cab downtown on Saturday night. Out of nowhere, this random guy just popped me in the nose. Interestingly, that's the -third- time in my life that I've been randomly attacked in Kennedy Plaza. And they wonder why people don't ride the bus.
"As for castigating Obama's handling of this... What is he supposed to do? There's nothing Obama said that would make you happy. Maybe he shouldn't have said anything. I suspect that the majority of this forum won't be happy until we're in a three-front war, all financed by Chinese money.
As far as I can tell, the Christian, Moral, and Fiscally Responsible thing to do is to just ignore this bozo. Maybe I missed the scripture on 'shooting missiles at people who talk sh*t', I was busy practicing this whole 'cheek-turning' thing.*
Posted by: David S at September 28, 2010 2:57 PMMangeek. Yes. I feel the same way. I was born into a country that I will defend. That is the essence of patriotic expression. I will defend my family, friends and neighbors and countrymen. But I will not and cannot defend an empire beyond our homeland built on oil money and looting and thuggery that enriches a few and hurts most of us. You may disagree and claim your American right to do whatever. I have grown up in this country always knowing my advantages. They are a blessing and a curse. There is someone like me –right now – in a forsaken country- that will see their patriotic mission quite differently than but also quite the same as ours. Sometimes I find myself seeing more commonground with them than the us.
Hey Russ-I knew we'd hear from you again.It was like pouring a mixture of Colman's Powdered Mustard and water into a nightcrawler hole.They pop right up.
Posted by: joe bernstein at September 28, 2010 3:24 PMSame to you Sammy.
David S-then pack up and move in with your friends over "there",wherever that is.I will never understand why some people like you feel guilty over being Americans.
Posted by: joe bernstein at September 29, 2010 3:54 AMThe point I was making,David(and mangeek) is simply that we could avoid a war by wiping out the ruling clique in Iran.The Iranian people don't need carpet bombing.If some proactive killing had been used previously in history,millions of lives could've been saved at the cost(?) of a few scumbags.
I really don't want to see another war fought by Americans in some Third World sh*thole.
BTW the quickest path to peace is to draft those kids from Brown,Harvard,etc.the wars would stop in two days.
Maybe DavidS doesn't feel guilty. Maybe he wonders about what sort of kinship exists between himself and war profiteers like Cheney or trust funders like Bush. Wealth and wage disparity is at it's highest level since 1979 seperating those who produce and those who profit from the workers increased productivity. The top 20 per cent now own 50 per cent of the wealth while the bottom 20 per cent just 3 per cent. Now that's a strong incentive for the lower classes to want to fight the wars for the top 20.
Posted by: Phil at September 29, 2010 6:34 AMLove it or leave it indeed.
Then David should beef about Cheney,not the Unted States.
Posted by: joe bernstein at September 29, 2010 8:24 AMI hate Cheney.A draft dodging turd who likes wars fought with other peoples' bodies and minds.
So don't bother throwing red herrings(or quahogs in your case)at me when I find people badmotuhing their country.
And the trust fund thing?We are plagued with trust fund babies like Sheldon and Linc Chafee who "know"what's best for us groundlings.
I am very grateful that my family came here a little over a century ago,because otherwise I wouldn't have existed since my forebears would have been turned into mulch by the Nazis instead of being able to serve in WW2 on our side.
Of course,according to the Iranian leadership that never happened.
Right now,I believe the government is in evil hands,but that's not my country that I'm angry at-just those people like Eric Holder,Nancy Pelosi,et al.
Joe wrote:
"The point I was making,David(and mangeek) is simply that we could avoid a war by wiping out the ruling clique in Iran."
Sorry Joe, but do you mean just like in Iraq? We wiped out the ruler Saddam Hussein and then avoided a war? It didn't quite work that way. Saddam has been toppled for quite a few years now and the supposed combat activity just ended last month? And it would seem that Iran is capable of putting up more of a fight than Iraq.
Posted by: Patrick at September 29, 2010 9:19 AMI don't suggest invading Iran.An invasion is a sure fire way to get tied up in a costly war like we did in Iraq.
Posted by: joe bernstein at September 29, 2010 11:20 AMI don't know if what I'm suggesting would work,but removing the top echelon in one shot would destabilize the theocracy.
Remember the mass show of discontent after the taxi driver was "re-elected"?
Iran is ready for an internal revolution.The vast majority of Iranians are neither religious fanatics nor anti-Western.Iran is not an artificial construct like Iraq,Syria,Lebanon,Jordan,or Israel.
Don't worry,Obama probably doesn't read AR to get my opinion.
russ-you seriously suggest that Ahmedinajad is a nut job?Hardly.He is a fanatic,and that's different.
Posted by: joe bernstein at September 30, 2010 7:39 AMIdi Amin was a nutjob.The taxi driver speaks for the mullahs.They aren't crazy either-just religious fanatics again.