Does No More DADT mean Yes to Campus ROTC...
Carroll Andrew Morse
...because it seems to in many places, but according to a characterization put forth by Dan Berrett of the online publication Inside Higher Ed, at least one local institution seems to be dragging its heels...
Officials at Brown University did not go as far as others in predicting a return of ROTC. Marisa Quinn, vice president of public affairs at Brown University, said via e-mail: "The repeal of Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell will likely stimulate additional conversation about ROTC on the Brown campus, a conversation that has occurred from time to time among the university's alumni, students, faculty and administrators. The university welcomes conversation on this and other important social and political questions." She added, however, that "the university's decision to phase out Air Force ROTC (1971) and Naval ROTC (1972) centered on academic issues, including whether ROTC units should have departmental status and whether courses offered by those units should carry academic credit. Those issues are matters for faculty discussion. Any academic issues raised by a potential return of ROTC instruction at Brown would require a vote of the faculty."
Hearing an official spokesperson stake out the position that bureaucratic hurdles are a primary consideration in deciding whether formal learning can be expanded into areas that would help bring students with diverse interests together within an academic community does not strike me as the best advancement of the proud traditions of Brown University.
And furthermore, are members of the Brown community really going to accept the proposition that the jokers at Harvard and Yale can figure out how to put together a program for students that Brown University can't?
Eliot Cohen of the Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies has a balanced take on what returning ROTC to campus involves in a Washington Post op-ed available here.
Okay-they DEMAND repeal of DADT.Fair enough-everyone who wants to serve heir country honorably and is able to should be allowed to.
But now they'll DISCUSS allowing ROTC to return.
Some of these elitist schools(apparently not Brown who threw out ROTC decades ago)have used DADT as THE reason not to have the military on campus.so if they still take that satnce,they'll be nothing but phonies.
I was in Navy ROTC at Cornell back in the late 70's, where ROTC programs (barely, by two votes) survived a faculty vote around 1973 as other elite colleges were voting it off.
The idea that getting rid of ROTC was primarily an academic issue is pretty funny, especially if you can find campus newspapers from that era (I read them while at school).
Ultimately Brown will accept ROTC because it's a good source of full-paying students and they probably can use the money.
Brown University laid its ROTC program to rest in June 1972.
Nothing to do with DADT
I find it very odd, that folks on the right, never mention that about 90% of today's leaders of National Republican Party who were of age during the Vietnam War...were draft-dodgers...
Just a partial list
Donald Carcieri did not serve
Willard Romney did not seerv
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve.
John Ashcroft: did not serve.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve
Pundits and Preachers
Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve
Given how many national political leaders come from Ivy League universities, barring ROTC from thier campuses does nothing to increase the overlap of political and military service. And while DADT wasn't the original reason that ROTC was banned from campuses in 1970, it's been the last reason for continuing the ban given by university administrations considered at-all "respectable" .
Gee sammy,how clever of you.You went to a web site and copied that info aand didn't even give credit-it's not like you researched this yourself.
BTW Bill Clinton did not serve either.
Oliver North served with distinction.
Posted by Andrew
"Given how many national political leaders come from Ivy League universities, barring ROTC from thier campuses does nothing to increase the overlap of political and military service."
How times change. I commend William Manchester's "Goodbye Darkness", interesting in its own right as his memoirs of service in WWII. It is also of interest when he recalls the members of his Rifle Company. After each name is appended Yale '42, Harvard '43, Princeton '41, etc, etc.
joe,
Oliver North disgraced himself as soon as he could weasel his way to political power. He lied to congress, purjured himself and then was pardoned for his undemocratic actions.
Oliver North
Failed to come forth.
He took the fifth,
Forthwith.
OldTimeLefty
joe,
Sammy posts 40 names of people who did not serve and you attack his source. Apparently, you have to accept the truth behind the numbers. The best you can do is to say he didn't quote the source of the figures, that the names are accurate, you cannot deny. And, yes we can add Bill Clinton's name to the list that contains arm-chair "patriots" who are behind our troops by about 3,000 miles. No comment on that score? Step up and take your lumps here, joe. Be honest, at least. Adding Clinton's name to the list does not excuse the 40 thieves, nor does it justify Clinton's actions. Remember that most of the 40 wave the flag and claim they were born on the 4th of July.
OldTimeLefty
OTL-I am not disputing the fact that many armchair patriots avoided service.
I myself actually lied to enlist by denying on the application that I had polio.(1953)
My best friend lied about not having had rheumatic fever.
We were just young guys who wanted to pay our dues.
Neither of us became politicians/pundits/preachers.
We were just a couple of regular guys whose greatest acheivement in life was to be good dads and grandads.
The loudmouth avoiders have to live with themselves.
Oliver North still has my respect because I truly believe he did what he did out of a sense of being on the right side of the situation.
Okay-it wasn't the best move,but thank Jimmy Carter for that.
BTW Carter served 6 years on submarine duty.That is about the only thing he ever did right.
I like to bust your balls,and vice versa.But feliz navidad anyhow.
Dan Yorke dissed that song the other day.What a shame.Feliz Navidad brings me back so many years to the Bronx around Christmas.Puerto Ricans KNOW how to do Christmas.
Now figure this out-I hate Jane Fonda and hope she dies slowly.
I like Joan Baez.
joe. Your last sentence proves you have some heart.I always feel as though you have one tucked away behind a tea pot somewhere.
OTL
Sammy,
I did serve in the military, but would vote for, or take orders from just about everyone on that list.
American's are free to serve in any way they chose. That is what is great about this country. That is exactly why I chose to serve my way.
I'm interested in what you've done for your country.
Otherwise, what's your point?
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Okay-they DEMAND repeal of DADT.Fair enough-everyone who wants to serve heir country honorably and is able to should be allowed to.
Posted by: joe bernstein at December 23, 2010 3:49 PMBut now they'll DISCUSS allowing ROTC to return.
Some of these elitist schools(apparently not Brown who threw out ROTC decades ago)have used DADT as THE reason not to have the military on campus.so if they still take that satnce,they'll be nothing but phonies.
I was in Navy ROTC at Cornell back in the late 70's, where ROTC programs (barely, by two votes) survived a faculty vote around 1973 as other elite colleges were voting it off.
The idea that getting rid of ROTC was primarily an academic issue is pretty funny, especially if you can find campus newspapers from that era (I read them while at school).
Ultimately Brown will accept ROTC because it's a good source of full-paying students and they probably can use the money.
Posted by: David C at December 23, 2010 4:50 PMBrown University laid its ROTC program to rest in June 1972.
Nothing to do with DADT
Posted by: Sammy at December 23, 2010 6:50 PMI find it very odd, that folks on the right, never mention that about 90% of today's leaders of National Republican Party who were of age during the Vietnam War...were draft-dodgers...
Just a partial list
Donald Carcieri did not serve
Willard Romney did not seerv
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve.
John Ashcroft: did not serve.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve
Pundits and Preachers
Posted by: Sammy at December 23, 2010 8:10 PMSean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve
Given how many national political leaders come from Ivy League universities, barring ROTC from thier campuses does nothing to increase the overlap of political and military service. And while DADT wasn't the original reason that ROTC was banned from campuses in 1970, it's been the last reason for continuing the ban given by university administrations considered at-all "respectable" .
Posted by: Andrew at December 23, 2010 9:57 PMGee sammy,how clever of you.You went to a web site and copied that info aand didn't even give credit-it's not like you researched this yourself.
Posted by: joe bernstein at December 23, 2010 10:41 PMBTW Bill Clinton did not serve either.
Oliver North served with distinction.
Posted by Andrew
"Given how many national political leaders come from Ivy League universities, barring ROTC from thier campuses does nothing to increase the overlap of political and military service."
How times change. I commend William Manchester's "Goodbye Darkness", interesting in its own right as his memoirs of service in WWII. It is also of interest when he recalls the members of his Rifle Company. After each name is appended Yale '42, Harvard '43, Princeton '41, etc, etc.
Posted by: Warrington Faust at December 23, 2010 11:35 PMjoe,
Posted by: o at December 26, 2010 12:20 PMOliver North disgraced himself as soon as he could weasel his way to political power. He lied to congress, purjured himself and then was pardoned for his undemocratic actions.
Oliver North
Failed to come forth.
He took the fifth,
Forthwith.
OldTimeLefty
joe,
Posted by: OldTimeLefty at December 26, 2010 12:31 PMSammy posts 40 names of people who did not serve and you attack his source. Apparently, you have to accept the truth behind the numbers. The best you can do is to say he didn't quote the source of the figures, that the names are accurate, you cannot deny. And, yes we can add Bill Clinton's name to the list that contains arm-chair "patriots" who are behind our troops by about 3,000 miles. No comment on that score? Step up and take your lumps here, joe. Be honest, at least. Adding Clinton's name to the list does not excuse the 40 thieves, nor does it justify Clinton's actions. Remember that most of the 40 wave the flag and claim they were born on the 4th of July.
OldTimeLefty
OTL-I am not disputing the fact that many armchair patriots avoided service.
Posted by: joe bernstein at December 26, 2010 12:57 PMI myself actually lied to enlist by denying on the application that I had polio.(1953)
My best friend lied about not having had rheumatic fever.
We were just young guys who wanted to pay our dues.
Neither of us became politicians/pundits/preachers.
We were just a couple of regular guys whose greatest acheivement in life was to be good dads and grandads.
The loudmouth avoiders have to live with themselves.
Oliver North still has my respect because I truly believe he did what he did out of a sense of being on the right side of the situation.
Okay-it wasn't the best move,but thank Jimmy Carter for that.
BTW Carter served 6 years on submarine duty.That is about the only thing he ever did right.
I like to bust your balls,and vice versa.But feliz navidad anyhow.
Dan Yorke dissed that song the other day.What a shame.Feliz Navidad brings me back so many years to the Bronx around Christmas.Puerto Ricans KNOW how to do Christmas.
Now figure this out-I hate Jane Fonda and hope she dies slowly.
I like Joan Baez.
joe. Your last sentence proves you have some heart.I always feel as though you have one tucked away behind a tea pot somewhere.
Posted by: OldTimeLefty at December 26, 2010 7:20 PMOTL
Sammy,
I did serve in the military, but would vote for, or take orders from just about everyone on that list.
American's are free to serve in any way they chose. That is what is great about this country. That is exactly why I chose to serve my way.
I'm interested in what you've done for your country.
Otherwise, what's your point?
Posted by: George at December 28, 2010 4:59 PM