This just shows how out of touch these entitlement minded jerks are.
There are plenty of ways to survive on the kind of money they are "challenging" us to do. I know because I don't spend much more than that every week. And, when I was underemployed years ago, I found all kinds of ways to cut back on spending and still eat sufficiently.
Of course, that required me doing a bit of work - clipping coupons, buying on sale, getting generic instead of brand label. Oh, and yeah - going without things I wanted.
This is a joke. Rather than making us aware of the difficulty, it's making us aware of just how entitlement-minded so many have become. They've become used to sucking off the system and doing so comfortably.
The problem with too many here is that when you just give them stuff, they don't place a premium on it, and they take it for granted. If they didn't have some of these programs, believe me, they'd figure out how to economize.
This is the perverse consequences of our nanny state.

Really the "snack aisle" should be the produce section. Apples, bananas, pears.

I'm not telling anyone what to eat, just offering suggestions for healthy eating.

Plus, also as Justin mentioned, the assumption is that the household will pay 30% themselves. So that's another $1.35 a day on top of that $4.50 for $5.85 a day or nearly $41 a week per person.

Also as Marc alluded to, you can get store brands for even cheaper. I even like the Stop & Shop brand of breakfast cereal for just $1 a box.

Even bigger savings can be had at both Dollar Tree and Ocean State Job Lot for pantry items. Those are even cheaper than the "big chain" and the "local supermarkets".

I lived in CA many years. Many times at the checkout was a very obese person with lots of sugar laden high calorie items. Out came the food stamps/card and the obese get bigger at the expense of the producers.When you do not have to "pay" for something you are more apt to not give a damn.

True story here, when I went to grad school, I got off the plane and went right to the neighborhood credit union. I took out a loan for the full amount of school and for whatever reason, didn't borrow more for rent and food. So then I had to figure out how to pay the rent and buy food. What better way than to work in the food industry where you get subsidized meals. I made pizzas for Pizza Hut. Quite often, I made barely enough to pay the rent, so often, meals were a single baked potato or a 10 cent packet of ramen noodles. You quickly learn how to get rid of hunger by filling your stomach with water. I lost about 30 lbs that year.

I'm not advocating that for anyone and clearly it's not even sustainable. The point is you do what you have to do and make it into a temporary solution. You do things that make sense, like getting a job in the food industry so then even if you still have to pay for meals, they're less expensive and you have options for a slightly more healthy meal.

Granted, the stories are anecdotal and maybe quite often only slightly more than "one-offs" but it is/was frustrating to hear of people buying Subway and $7 steak and bottles of Coke on food assistance while literally starving on ramen with the understanding that I put myself in that situation and I'd live with the consequences.

Shame on you, Marc. You do realize you're talking about a program whose primary beneficiaries are children, yes? Come down to Amos House and volunteer, and then tell me those children have it good enough for you.
www.amoshouse.com

I worked at a Quiznos during my freshman year of college. More free food than I knew what to do with. Every night I left with 1-2 unclaimed sandwiches and a huge container of broccoli and cheddar soup. All the free drinks you wanted, all day long.

They are hiring.

Marc is missing an important fact. People at the Interfaith Coalition to Fight Poverty etc. shop at Whole Foods where a 12-oz. can of orange juice concentrate is $4.30. And so on.

Russ, God Bless you for the work you do at Amos House.

EBT and WIC are good programs.
If they are misused,whether by ignorance or design is no reason to eliminate them.
WIC provides essentials only for young children-allowing early childhood malnutrition to exist only makes for more expense and more social problems own the road.
EBT should not be authorized for junk food-i.e. chips,candy,soda,ready made sandwiches,etc.
It should only be for non taxable food.
EBT is a supplement,not a whole source of food,so the "test" suggested by advocates isn't valid.
I truly hate to agree with Russ on anything,but he isn't wrong here.
I think if a vendor EVER gets bagged for "trading up" on EBT cards they should receiive a lifetime ban from ever handling sucha transaction again.
Zero tolerance for fraud enablers is a good start.
EBT recipients should receive some brief to the point counseling about where to use their cards to save money-they can get great bargains at places like Price Right,Job Lot,Savalot,Aldi's,etc.I do and believe me,I don't get EBT.

Of course $31.50 per child per week is enough to feed a child, provided that the person knows how to buy, cook and keep food. That's a big "provided" in the world of the entitled. Unfortunately we are supporting the Nth generation of people who don't know anything but fast foods (Subway, MacDonalds), prepared foods (rotisserie chicken from Stop & Shop), junk food (soda, chips) and probably the only chance they have at a somewhat balanced meal, free school lunch & breakfast.

Check out the "Occupy Providence" page on facebook and see what kinds of food they are begging for (soy milk/almond milk/rice milk and other Whole Foods/Yuppie goodies) - not to mention my favoirite - volunteering of an EBT card to buy water for the campers.

Great post Marc.

Russ you need to answer for the parents of those children at Amos. You and your ilk have been sanctioning their bad behavior for decades. How proud you libs must be as you weep your phony tears for the children. Russ have you ever spent even an hour of personal introspection into how your political beliefs in the form of public policy actually create the miserable lives those Amos children must endure??
I'm glad you work at Amos. You should. You and your liberal ilk OWN it.
Shame!!

Russ,

It seems to me (once again) that you're too quick to attack and therefore miss an opportunity to really advance the discussion.

Essentially, what you have in Marc's post and mine is testimony that, well, $31.50 per week really isn't that bad a start for filling the fridge and cabinets. So, what makes the difference for those who still must seek the other sorts of help that you describe?

Let's propose, for the sake of discussion, that what accounts for the difference is the responsibility and knowledge of families like Marc's and mine that make it possible to eat well with less money, whereas those who live in poverty lack the background to avoid bad decisions when it comes to the grocery store. Wouldn't the better solution be to direct them, through incentives and education, toward the more intelligent grocery basket?

Justin we all know the foundation of liberalism is "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day" whereas the death knell of liberalism is to "Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
Explains Russ' reaction to Marc's outstanding narrative don't you think?

Make no mistake about it - Russ's angle here is to keep them dumb, dependent and voting Democrat. It's a truly cynical 3D vision of these "progressive's". (I guess they want to be called that now since "liberals" have gotten such a nasty reputation, them being so stupid and all) Hey, who can argue that it hasn't been working. Just remember, don't listen to what they say.

Just a random recollection brought up by this post. Many years ago when Patty Hearst was "kidnapped" by the Symbionese Liberation Army, the SLA demanded that the Hearst family provide food for the poor. The Hearst family aceeded to this, but the offer was rejected. It seems that the food offered was not of sufficient quality, i.e., not steak, etc. I guess the Hearst family assumed the poor would prefer quantity and nutrition. Just another reason why I favored the Bader-Meinhoff Gang over SLA.

Posted by leprechaun
"How about a Food Stamp Challenge that would look into why there are 1154 recipients using TEMPORARY Social Security numbers that begin with 666 made up by Dept. Of Human Services"

666? I wonder who thought up that one? I wonder if they saw "The Omen".

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name" - Revelations

For those of you who have never seen "The Omen", or read the Bible. "666" is the "mark of the beast".

Russ,

Are you saying that the children who show up at Amos House are starving or going without? Their parents get food stamps don't they? And they qualify for free school breakfast,lunch,snacks and maybe dinner don't they?

Why aren't you complaining about the parents who don't bother to provide meals for their children,if that is the true situation for most,which I do not believe at all. I lived on the South side of Providence and saw people throw good donated food,like sandwiches and bread into the street.

If you are so concerned about these supposedly hungry children at Amos House,why don't you report their parents for child neglect?

Shame on you,Russ. Shame on you!

Russ

Thank you for helping at Amos House. In this economy every little bit done for poor children and their parents is huge. I don't want to get involved in the politics of food but I do agree with Justin's comment about support for programs to help people on food assistance make intelligent choices when shopping. I do have to wonder though at a time when people are so opposed to paying the taxes they pay now where would the money for such programs come from?

{{In its report, the budget office found that from 1979 to 2007, average inflation-adjusted after-tax income grew by 275 percent for the 1 percent of the population with the highest income. For others in the top 20 percent of the population, average real after-tax household income grew by 65 percent.

By contrast, the budget office said, for the poorest fifth of the population, average real after-tax household income rose 18 percent. }}

I believe in putting up your money where your mouth is. Some commenters here think $32 a week is easy. So take the challenge. I know the challenge in its own right is what have you peeved. But what better way than taking on this liberal challenge, do conservatives get to prove their ideological point. I would suggest an AR event with people signing up to challenge the wooly headed liberals. Now don't do this challenge for a week. Why not do it for the remaining weeks of 2011? One would really show some budgeting discipline week to week and not just count on stored foods.

David S., I have a 2 income middle class family of three. Our food budget is only $120/week. We don't receive any gov or other charity benefits. So I am already doing this. That fits in with the $32/week subsidy + 30% expected family contribution. Frankly, if we cut out some of the luxury items (snax, soda, etc.) it would probably be around $100. Yes, you can't shop @ Whole Foods on this, but it is very doable...

Simple Fact: Nobody in America is starving. The data show that even in 'food insecure' homes, the problem manifests itself as a parent occasionally skipping a meal. Even the staggering number of 'food insecure' homes is based on a *single skipped meal in a year*.

Our poor are more likely to be obese than our middle class. Our problem isn't that people don't have access to food. SNAP and WIC do a good job as-is.

I like to find actual 'problems' and then find ways to 'fix' them; I don't have an agenda. Since the 'problem' is no longer 'hunger', but 'obesity' and 'malnutrition', it's time to start controlling what foods recipients can buy with the subsidy and improve school lunches.

This "challenge"conveniently ignores the supplemental nature of EBT(and WIC).
Neither program is designed to provide a total food budget.
Most people on one or both programs are receiving other income-many in fact are working at low paying jobs,so the figure cited is just not the true budget amount.
I wouldn't scrap either program and don't see them as wasted tax money.
Fraud and abuse are the problem.
The US shouldn't be a place where people go hungry-the tax money being pissed away on unecessary overeas military involvements and such utter BS as rich bastards like Al Gore and the Pritzkers getting taxpayer funds to make Finns a good weekly paycheck has to stop.
Less foreign aid across the board is another necessity.
And,BTW a challenge from a prick like Donald Anderson isn't worth listening to-that guy thinks anyone in favor of enforcing immigration laws hates "brown people"-the hell with him anyway.

@mangeek:
If the EBT cards produce the same behavior in some as does credit and debit cards, is there any wonder that the problem is obesity and malnutrition and not hunger. I know food stamps had their own set of problems but apparently EBT wasn't the panacea to fix them.

david s. said:
"Now don't do this challenge for a week. Why not do it for the remaining weeks of 2011? One would really show some budgeting discipline week to week and not just count on stored foods."

Are we using the liberal version of budgeting discipline or conservative. If it's the liberal version, I'll just borrow the food from my neighbor and never pay it back.

Any econ101 student knows (or at least should know) that these subsidies and benefits are all fungible. It's all just a more palatable smokescreen to make it impossible to figure out who is actually paying how much for whom. $200 extra a month towards food or other regular expenses means that there is $200 extra freed up to spend on cigarettes, iphones, or what have you. Or if the individual had literally no preexisting budget, there are hundreds of ways to convert designated benefits into quick cash.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - if people received a lump sum tax bill for government every month, an extra 30% of the population would turn libertarian overnight (and not the "left" kind).

Posted by joe
"I think if a vendor EVER gets bagged for "trading up" on EBT cards they should receive a lifetime ban from ever handling such a transaction again."

There has been a large reduction in fraud for an unexpected reason. One of the causes was the rise of "chain" convenience stores. That put the squeeze on neighborhood "mom and pops". In order to survive, they began "buying" food stamps. Usually at a 50% discount. The steady demise of the mom and pops seems to have significantly curtailed it. "Managers" are less likely to engage in such things than "owners".

Not coincidentally, the switch to EBT cards has assisted in reducing fraud. Who and where are more easily tracked. My sources with knowledge in these areas tell me that it still goes on, put the places that will do it are fewer. One does not expect Stop & Shop to be complicit. They do have the problem that 16 year old cashiers may be relcutant to tell an adult purchaser that certain items are not available on EBT. When it happens, the customers tend to pay cash for those items.

Supply and demand being the rule of the day; I would be amazed if stores are not established for the purpose of "cashing" EBT benefits where EBT benefits are common.

I understand that food retailers lobby against and reductions. If you could track it, I wonder how much of CDM's profits are dependant on EBTs. The sums we are talking about are huge.

It is not news to anyone at a bureaucratic level that America's problem is obesity and malnutrition, not hunger.

Thanks for the comments folks. After reading them, I know once again that I am living in the belly of the beast.
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego
and OldTimeLefty

david s. said:
"Now don't do this challenge for a week. Why not do it for the remaining weeks of 2011? One would really show some budgeting discipline week to week and not just count on stored foods."

Are we using the liberal version of budgeting discipline or conservative. If it's the liberal version, I'll just borrow the food from my neighbor and never pay it back.

We are using the REAL version.-- How's your Thanksgiving dinner going to be? How's Christmas? I see I still have no one taking the challenge. I don't want to. How about Helen? Or Patrick? Or the odious Mike Cappelli? Or the the Tim or the Dan?

Posted by OldTimeLefty
"Thanks for the comments folks. After reading them, I know once again that I am living in the belly of the beast.
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and OldTimeLefty"

OTL I had suspected that you were a vegetarian. But, in a number of your comments, you do bow to the statue.(Yes, I have read the Bible)

Question:

What do three millionaires choose to eat when they are not working?

Answer:

Chicken and biscuits from Popeye's.

and beer.

Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego

They are not the millionaires that were ordering out during ballgames. Who are they?

Posted by Phil
"Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego

Who are they?"

Phil, for shame. They were 3 Jewish boys who were subjects of Chaldeans. They were brought to Babylon to learn Babylonian ways. They refused to eat rich foods and insisted on vegetables and water. Their health was superior to he Babylonians, and the health of those who imitated them improved. They refused to bow to a golden idol and were ordered thrown into a fiery furnace. God saved them.

You will find it in the Bible, Daniel, I believe. Just part of Western Civ., I am not particularly religious.

Who's gonna comment next here-Jimmy Swaggart?

Posted by joe bernstein
"Who's gonna comment next here-Jimmy Swaggart?"

Joe, you're such a card. You probably remeber when they took the make up off Tammy Fay Baker and found Jimmy Hoffa.

"Simple Fact: Nobody in America is starving."

I haven't seen a less intelligent post on this website ever. And I'm being quite serious about that.

Go look the homeless people in the eyes in DC, Detroit, Chicago, or even Providence... kids, people who are sick, veterans, and all the rest. Tell them they aren't starving. If you're still alive when you get back, drop me a line.

It may be politically incorrect to say it, but the fact itself is undeniable - Americans don't starve. I walk by at least 5 homeless people on my way to work every day in DC. Most of them are overweight and have food wrappers scattered around whatever grate or public park bench they have taken as their spot. Some are mentally ill, some are addicted, some are clearly just lazy and do nothing all day, every day. The progressive "solution" of giving them more money does nothing but accelerate their demise.

Although I am not religous, I am a member of a religous institution through my family and for social reasons. I tell you there is no way they would turn away any of these people if they genuinely came and asked for help turning their life around. They don't want help - not really.

"I haven't seen a less intelligent post on this website ever. And I'm being quite serious about that."

jparis....review all your previous posts.

"Go look the homeless people in the eyes in DC, Detroit, Chicago, or even Providence"

The chronically homeless who won't go to the shelters that have rooms available?! I'm sorry, I should amend my previous statement:

"Less Simple Fact: Nobody in America is starving for lack of access to food. If they are it's because they are not seeking food or fraudulently transferring their food benefits."

I do see homeless people every day, Mr. Paris. There are a few folks who hang out in the park right next to my work. They're thin and gaunt, but they each drink at least $30/day in alcohol from what I can tell by the piles of bottles. Are they 'starving'? They can walk to Crossroads and get food, it's only a few blocks away. They could also drink less and have a bigger food budget than I do.

My girlfriend works in Central Falls with the indigent. Her clients are disabled and formerly homeless. The only time they go without food is when they blow their whole monthly SNAP/SSDI benefits on frivolous stuff, then my GF has to bail them out using petty cash. These folks aren't starving either, they just have a new boyfriend and went over their allotted number of texts in their data plan, and they've prioritized their cell phone over food.

The progressive idea is that if you help someone, that's all they'll need to get on their feet. In reality, we keep building better idiots. I'm not saying we should cut the programs, I want reforms to actually HELP people, some of which even involve spending more.

David S:
"I see I still have no one taking the challenge. I don't want to. How about Helen? Or Patrick?"

Sure. I keep all my expenses tracked in financial software. I see my food budget for this month for my family of 3 is $433. Less than $110 a week. What do I win?

Should I go back and let you know about past months too? We cook at home, use coupons, bag lunch, eat leftovers and buy generic.

@Dan: All the homeless people in the K-street region (or downtown, or most business areas) have already been fed twice that day, no doubt.

But to say that there are NO starving people in America? Have you ever worked at a soup kitchen? There's one near GWU, and I've certainly seen extremely hungry if not starving people show up there.

I don't understand how people can just say "This is fact." without providing any information outside of personal experience. So I'll add a little reference material:

"In 2010, ~6.7 million households, or 5.4 percent of all U.S. households, had very low food security (compared with 4.7 million households (4.1 percent) in 2007. In households with very low food security, the food intake of some household members was reduced, and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because of the household’s food insecurity (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. v., USDA 2008, p. iii.)

The United States changed the name of its definitions in 2006 that eliminated references to hunger, keeping various categories of food insecurity. This did not represent a change in what was measured. Very low food insecurity (described as food insecurity with hunger prior to 2006) means that, at times during the year, the food intake of household members was reduced and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because the household lacked money and other resources for food. This means that people were hungry ( in the sense of "the uneasy or painful sensation caused by want of food" [Oxford English Dictionary 1971] for days each year (USDA Wesbite, 2006)."

That's from the USDA... not exactly a liberal think-tank. They even stopped using the word "hunger" under the Bush Administration and replaced it with "food insecurity". But does that make it less true?

Oh and as an aside, I never give money to the homeless for the underlying reasons you state. I've given away suits for interviews (back when I had money), and a lot of food -- but never money. The folks who truly want "out" of homelessness will be far more thankful for a coat, clean clothes, and a bite to eat than they will be for a few bucks. The folks asking for money *generally* want it for booze/drugs to numb the pain.

@Anthony: Glad to know I'm appreciated buddy :)

Are you saying that the children who show up at Amos House are starving or going without?

No, what I'm saying is that ridiculing a program that primarily serves hungry children is shameful. From Marc's response, I can see he didn't take my honest suggestion seriously (what a shock). Spin that how you like, helen, but I know I'm on the right side of hope on this one.

So 1 of 19 -households- have a -member- who -misses a meal- over a period of a -year-, and that's a national hunger problem?

I've been without food for the whole house for two day stretches before. I've had to subsist on candy pilfered from jars on coworkers' desks after hours. Really.

The definitions are bent... If 1/19 households have a member who experiences a skipped meal in a year, that's not a big enough problem to warrant further mention. We're at or past the point of diminishing returns on our investment in food for the poor. Why don't they add some definitions so we can find out how many homes experience chronic skipped meals, and then cross-reference that with other societal problems to see if we can 'fix hunger' through other programs (like addiction treatment, or fuel subsidies, vehicle repair vouchers, etc.).

It's a given that Amos House does good work-has done so for many years-it's also interesting that Russ donates time there.
He should-after all,it's gentrifiers like him who drove so many economically marginal people into homeleseness.Not on purpose,I'm sure,but thoughtlessly.
He should've grown up with some insecurity in his life-I did,and it made me stronger.
I have never been able to take anything for granted.Maybe I could now,but my early life molded me into a way of thinking.

I don't know if Russ is a "gentrifier," nor do I have any problem with the conduct if he is. What we do know is that his progressive policies are precisely what has made so many people needy and dependent in Rhode Island in the first place. And they will stay that way for all time until every faux progressive "expert" like Russ is swept into the dustbin of history and every corrupt, enabling politician that people like Russ support is voted out of power.

Joe thinks it's my civic duty to let my property go into foreclosure. Trust me, would that gentrification were our biggest concern on the south side.

"My point isn't to denigrate those who rely upon food stamps to eat..."

Funny because it seems that's exactly what most folks here took away from your post. That doesn't bother you?

David S:
"I see I still have no one taking the challenge. I don't want to. How about Helen? Or Patrick?"

Sure. I keep all my expenses tracked in financial software. I see my food budget for this month for my family of 3 is $433. Less than $110 a week. What do I win?

Should I go back and let you know about past months too? We cook at home, use coupons, bag lunch, eat leftovers and buy generic.

Thanks, Patrick. Do you include all your other household expenses? Like soap, cleaners, toilet paper, baggies, storage containers, brooms, mops, paper bags, scrubbers, paper towels or cloth towels. Thanks though for taking the informal challenge.

Russ-foreclosure?WTF are you talking about?
I said something very simple-when upwardly mobile younger people start buying into marginal neighborhoods and renovating and bringing in galleries and boutiques and oh so cute cafes,the people who were there get priced out of their apartments by rising rents-I have seen it happen in a lot of places,and guess what?
They have no place they can afford to go.
You sow a lot of seeds of bitterness that way while you think of yourself as some kind of "progressive".
Amos House winds up with some more clients.
Maybe it's not convoluted enough for you to understand.

Posted by joe bernstein

"I said something very simple-when upwardly mobile younger people start buying into marginal neighborhoods and renovating and bringing in galleries and boutiques and oh so cute cafes,the people who were there get priced out of their apartments by rising rents-I have seen it happen in a lot of places,and guess what?
They have no place they can afford to go."

Joe, the truly great offender is HUD and the US government. Section 8 pays 20% over "market rate". So, if the market rate is $600, the government will pay $720. Owners look around and say "Well, if the government will pay $720, my rents are too low". So, the "market rate" goes up. What do you think happens? People who are not on Section 8 can't afford to live there.

"Gentrifiers" "are people too" "they have to live somewhere". It begins to appear that gentrification may save Detroit.

"...people who were there get priced out of their apartments by rising rents"

Thus, in your view the best thing I could do for the neighborhood would be to let my house go into foreclosure so the rents down the street would be lower. It's not opinion shared by any of the home owners that I know and generally not supported by the numbers (south side likely worse than average in this regard).

www.pbn.com/Providence-rents-remain-stagnant-,54762

But if my great sin in this life is painting my house and mowing my lawn, I can live with that.

Russ-my outlook is influenced by what happened to my hometown of NYC.
I grew up there in the 50's and it's been turned into a gentrified Leggo-lockdown prison camp run by a midget megalomaniac.
It used to be a great place with nice areas,seedy areas,and a great infrastrucure-it's all gone.
even the f**kin' Bowery ahs been gentrified.
Williamsburg is a real case study-it's "trendy"-arrrrgh!!
OK,I've busted your chops enough for one thread.

Somehow I just can't picture John Varvatos opening a boutique in the location of Luna Night Club on Broad Street.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBGB#Building

Phil,
Forget what Warrenton Faust says on this subject.
Here is a sketch of Book of Daniel version of the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego:

Nebuchadnezzar had a statue made to represent the glory of the Babylonian Empire. (Text does not say what form the idol took. It could have been a bear; it could very well have been a bull.)
Nebuchadnezzar ordered that all good Babylonians should worship it. Some of the super patriotic Babylonians kept a close eye on the alien Jews in their midst and reported that three Jews in particular; Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego refused to worship it. Nebuchadnezzar knew them since they came recommended by The Prophet Daniel, a personal friend of the king. Nebuchadnezzar gave them a 2nd chance to worship. They refused, saying that they would not serve Babylon’s god or worship the image of gold.
Nebuchadnezzar had them thrown into a fiery furnace.
They walked out unharmed.
They fared better than Occupy Oakland did.
OldTimeLefty

Russ-haha-I remember CBGB when it WAS CBGB.The whole area was grungier than sh*t,but it was real.
I have no idea who this Varvatos guy is.
See,you gotta be my age to remember NYC when it had some character and good government.
When the school system actually taught you something worthwhile.
When the used book store district could give Charing Cross a run for its money.
Try a book called "Up in the Old Hotel"by Joseph Mitchell-no politics,just great journalistic essays by a writer for the New Yorker magazine.
Some of it is from the Thirties,but enough of it was there when I was young so i could remember what he describes in many cases.
The idea of a clean,wholesome Bowery or the Disneyland lookalike Deuce(Times Square)makes me wanna throw up.
The ultimate yuppie disgrace came when some a**hole painted the Hell Gate Bridge fuschia!!

Joe,

Was it the Bowery that became "The East Village"? Or, have I mistaken my geography. I guess "Alphabet City" is next. Can you remember when "Roosevelt Island" was "Welfare Island"? I understand that "German Town", on 86th, is down to one restaurant.

Warrington-the Bowery is not technically in the East Village-it's between Chinatown/Little Italy on the south and west,the East Village to the north,and the Lower East Side on the east.
Alphabet City is east of the East Village,but really part of it also.
Yeah-I remember when it was Welfare Island-previously it was Blackwell's Island.
The islands of NYC are a long time interest of mine.
The German nieghborhood is Yorkville,but it's transformed over the years into a non-ethnic area.

Russ, I was entirely genuine in my response to you regarding the time you spend at Amos House. But you can't see that, instead you reverted to your natural antagonism, as you did with your initial response. We can always count on you to assume the worst motives, which is why I rarely respond to you.

I thought it obvious that my point was to illustrate that the current level of food subsidization was about right, in contrast to the implication in the challenge. It wasn't to say we should have starving kids. And regardless of what other commenters have said, I don't think any have advocated for more starving children.

Have a nice day.

Marc-Russ,OTL,Phil,David S and some others(like that "sammy"character)are all bound and determind to be confrontational,snide,and totally possessed of righteousness and "social justice" at the expense of the truth-why bother being sincere with them?
They just can't EVER be wrong,get it?
If I had a dollar for every time I was wrong I'd own Lincoln Chafee's BIG house.

joe,
I posted twice to this blog, once referring to Shadrach et. al. and again explaining why I see the story as being relevant today.

Help me out here, where exactly am I being "confrontational, snide, and totally possessed of righteousness and 'social justice' at the expense of the truth?
Put up or shut up.
OldTimeLefty

I'll put up-I was not specifically referring to your Bible lesson on this thread-it's the general tone of derision you and some other people here use regarding virtually anything that is to the right of Alinsky.
And you're never wrong-when you get caught on something you go to that "freely deny"nonsense.

Posted by joe bernstein
"I'll put up-I was not specifically referring to your Bible lesson on this thread-it's the general tone of derision you and some other people here use regarding virtually anything that is to the right of Alinsky."

Joe, I think you are intellectualizing too much about OTL's writing. I don't think he considers it a lot, he just writes what feels good. This is not a serious discussion to him.

For instance, I understood his reference to Shadrach, et al, but I didn't understand the allusion. In other words, I have no idea how it connects to this thread.

Just ignore him, unless his comments seem thoughtful.

Going off topic in a thread is something I have no room to criticize anyone else for,that's for sure.LOL.