Carcieri/Fogarty I: Open Thread
Anchor Rising readers are invited to use the comments section of this post to give their own real time reactions to tonight’s Rhode Island Gubernatorial debate between Donald Carcieri and Charles Fogarty (WNAC-TV, FOX 64 @ 8:00 pm).
Insightful comments, witty comments, and even comments that spin like a perfect Tom Brady spiral heading towards some receiver you may or may not have heard of are all welcome, but personally insulting or crude posts will be deleted as soon as I see them.
The comments are open now!
How is Charley going to pay for the Health care?
Or all those social programs, or property tax reductions, or “working with the teachers [unions] to improve education, or lowering tuition at CCRI/RIC/URI? Given that he also said he didn’t want to raise taxes, there must be some magic forumula involved that I missed. Can’t be the casino — he’s against that. I give up…
Gov. Carcieri certainly “won” tonight’s debate — I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. He was very quick on his feet, and gave detailed answers to the questions asked, while Fogarty basically kept repeating “we can do better”, without saying how to do it.
I agree with Fred that Carcieri kind of made Fogarty look foolish by calling him out on all the spending increases that Fogarty wants, such as mandatory health care insurance, while wanting to cut all sorts of other taxes. Making a personal expediture mandatory, is the equivalent of calling for a new tax increase on everyone. Even if “the state” pays for it, that still means you and me, just out of a different pocket. As long as Carcieri keeps getting that message across, this will be a cakewalk.
Fogarty’s apparently an advocate for alchemy, because that’s the only way you’ll get his figures to add up.
PS By the way, don’t buy the poll that Ch. 12 out out tonight. The methodology lead to a very Democrat-friendly result in both major races (Carcieri vs. Fogarty and even Chafee vs. Whitehouse). Fogarty isn’t that close to Carcieri, and while Whitehouse may have a minimal lead over Chafee, it’s nowhere near an 11% race).
Charlie Fogarty was (and has been) well rehearsed in every question asked and his answers would be applicable to any candidate running for governor in ANY state. Problem is, this is Rhode Island, not some generic state.
You think we pay high taxes now? Charlie’s health care “for all” plan will ONLY cost us another half billion dollars.
Why won’t he tell us which legislators support his term limit proposal? Why didn’t he submit it last year?
Anyone know the quickest way to get out of this state if Charlie wins?
I agree 100% with the post debate commentarty from Tom Coyne at http://www.ripolicyanalysis.org
Don Carcieri is far too nice in these debates. Just imagine what Laffey would have done to Fogarty with all his pie in the sky ideas and no way to pay for them. The governor won the debate but he needs to repeatedly and forcefully call Fogarty out whenever he offers up any new tax proposal or spending program. Also needs to constantly tie Fogarty to the special interests that own him at every turn.
Rest assured the wave of negative attacks ads are coming against the governor. You saw a glimpse of it last night with Fogarty trying to tie the governor to George Bush. If the governor and his campaign are smart (the governor is, his campaign team is another matter) he will run this last month as though he were 6 – 10 points down rather than 6 – 10 points ahead. If he doesn’t and he and his campaign hit cruise control he’s making a big mistake.
Agree with those questioning the USA Today/Gallup poll. None of the candidates for governor or the Senate are buying into these numbers.
Something’s up with both polls that came out this week – one seemingly Denocrat-friendly and the other GOP-friendly on both the gov and Senate races. The truth probably lies somewhere in between – I can buy Carcieri having a 5-10-point lead, but not 20 (unless all those big unions are really abandoning Fogarty because he came out stronger against the casino – kind of disproves the Fogarty owned by the unions argument).
In hindsight, Fogarty probably made a mistake by saying he opposes a casino, but was willing to put it to a vote – the Teamsters, Laborers International, etc. felt a greater sense of betrayal from his opposition to the casino than Carcieri’s. After all, nobody cares that Carieri wants gay marriage to go to a referendum but didn’t want a similar vote on the casino.
If Carcieri wins, let’s at least hope it drives defeat of the casino.
Rhody,
How does Fogarty get hurt by coming out against the casino? The union lemmings are suddenly going to vote Carcieri? Or they’ll write in Karl Marx on their ballots? Fogarty obvioulsy felt there was no political loss in mirroring Carcieri.
if charley fogarty was running as a republican, he would get 30% of the vote. he is a nothing..
Tim, it’s the betrayal factor. Yeah, they may still vote for Fogarty when they get in the booth, but they won’t put as much money or effort into the gov’s race as they would’ve otherwise. Carcieri’s anti-union, but hey, how many Republicans aren’t? If you’re union, you expect to get slapped in the face by Carcieri and his peeps.
It’s kind of how Laffey Republicans feel about Chafee. Some may break down and vote for him, but really won’t care if Whitehouse wins.
Rhody,
Where has Carcieri slapped unions in the face?
>Where has Carcieri slapped unions in the face?
Tim,
The unions – and in particular the public sector unions – expect and demand unquestioning fealty and “order taking” by politicians in furtherance of the union(s) agenda.
That Carcieri “dared” push even minimal reforms in the public sector pension system was / is enough to make him an “enemy” in their eyes.
TomW,
Agree completely. Just thought I’d challenge Rhody to give us something more than the usual empty union rhetoric. Carcieri doesn’t demonize unions nor does he slap them in the face. Truth is he simply doesn’t kiss their a$$ and that offends them to no end. May he get four more years to offend our overly sensitve and spoiled friends.
Carcieri is running an inept campaign. He needs to run ads on how Charlie supports gold-plated tax funded health care for illegals, wants to make babysitters state employees and show Charlie with the corrupt sludge behind his campaign: Murphy, Dufault, Reback, Williamson etc.
Mike,
Agree completely. Do you remember Dufault’s famous goumatta tape? Remember what else was being discussed on that tape? Guy Dufault telling Mike Levesque he was going to meet with Charlie Fogarty and read Fogarty the riot act over his slow campaign.
Yet one gets the feeling Carcieri seems to think this campaign is the gentleman’s club or something. Tom Coyne mentioned how nice the governor is, i.e. he’s not being aggressive at all. Dan Yorke seems to think the governor is tired, etc. It’s pretty strange especially since Don Carcieri has been shown just how ruthless his enemies are. As I stated earlier he’d better run his campaign over the last month as though he were 6 – 10 points down. He’s making a big mistate if he takes anything for granted.
Watch Carcieri pull out the Dufault’s-slandering-me card again – that card has plenty of political mileage. After all, Don’s “an old-fashioned guy” and entitle to lose his temper every so often.
BTW, Dufault’s done just as much work (if not more) for corporate clients as for unions, but you never hear the Carcieri partisans mention the corporates.
Rhody,
Why does that bother you so? Because a sleaze like Guy Dufault is very much a union boy who cuddles with George Nee and Co and you’d prefer the Carcieri not mention him or his plan to personally smear the governor of this state?
By the way do you mean the “corporates” as in Harrah’s?
So funny how the anti-big business union types don’t see Harrah’s as a corporate boogeyman. I guess Harrah’s money going directly into union pockets does buy love.
Just another layer of hypocrisy.
Still waiting for some slap in the union face examples Rhody. Don’t tell me they didn’t supply any with your union talking points.
The day care providers weren’t even organizing a union, simply seeking state recognition. Yet Carcieri tried to peddle it as a union. He’ll slide because Hispanics don’t vote in great enough numbers.
Tim, you wish Dufault was just a union boy. His tentacles ranged far on both sides before he screwed up.
Dear Tim,
On two occaisions in 2003, the Governor referred to teachers as “dogs”.
Frank Montanaro was referred to as corrupt by the Governor more than 17 times in 2004 while never bothering to supply evidence of said corruption.
During the 2002-2005 period, as reported in the Pro-Jo, the Governor and Mayor Laffey had weekly meetings regarding “union busting”.
At a 2004 fundraiser at Quonset point, the Governor referred to unions as “the biggest evil facing us today.”
Would you like more?
Bobby,
Sorry but your word isn’t nearly good enough. The governor of this state is running around trash talking union bosses yet you can’t produce a single quote from any newspaper article ever? From TV text? Nothing?
All you present us with is some union manufactured red meat (lies) that gets thrown to the clueless rank and file? Very very lightweight Bobby. I am quite shocked and disappointed in you. lol Not!
May I suggest you use google to help you with your research of the truth Bobby. But let me offer a little advice for you before you begin your search, in his 63 years on this earth Don Carcieri has never called teachers or anyone else dogs.
Never happened Bobby.
Happy researching and I look forward to reading your footnoted facts. lol
Rhody,
The babysitters are your example of the governor slapping unions in the face? The babysitters? lol
By the way don’t assume Hispanic taxpayers are more supportive and sympathetic of gravy training babysitters trying to get on the state dole than any other group of taxpayers around here.
Dear Tim,
Unfortunately, the Lively Experiment, where one of the “dog” comments appeared is not googleable. Sorry about that. (I was in the hall for the other one at the StateHouse, but the Dan Yorke show isn’t archived either).
You sure he’s never said it? After all, if he loses on November 7th, it would be the third time in a row he’s been terminated. That kind of record has to get you to through around the word “dog” at least once.
As far as an attack on Mr. Montanaro goes, you can start here (a Carcieri press release)
http://www.ri.gov/GOVERNOR/view.php?id=438
Sorry if the Governor is considered such a lousy communicator by his staff that his State of the State speeches, where he either lies or makes promises he cannot keep, are only 15 minutes long and nothing else he says seems worthy of recording. You have to take that step to get on the internet in the first place.
By the way Tim, on this issue, if the Governor is not anti-union as you suggest, why does every union want to see him replaced? Would be kind of odd to go after someone who had not insulted you in one way or another.
Lastly, I have to thank this Governor. By the time he is done, he may be the only member of the RIGOP left. The RIGOP is about to lose every Federal office, only 1 statewide office is even a competition and it looks like there will be Democratic gains in the General Assembly (even though it’s almost statistically impossibe). I guess we should be impressed by his performance of 12,700 when he promised 20,000. Maybe we should be more impressed that he has another ethics violation brewing.
Hey Tim, doesn’t that little bubble feel real comfortable now?
Well played, Bobby – some people will blame unions for ANYTHING. Have they found the AFSCME card on the effects of the pilot who flew that plane into the New York building today?
And Tim, I’ve got nothing against the idea of a Republican governor – just against the arrogant bully sitting in that office right now. If a reasonable Republican like Linc Chafee and Ron Matchley (if he’s ever lured back into the game) ran in ’10, there’s a good chance I’d vote for him.
Bobby Oliveria made the statement that during 2004 head union hack Frank Montanaro was referred to as corrupt on more than 17 occasions by Governor Carcieri. Bobby cites the press release from the governor that I pasted below as evidence. lol Bobby I must confess you’re an even bigger lightweight than I thought. You should be embarrassed that you can’t back up your lies better than this Bob. Jeeeez!! lol CARCIERI CALLS FOR FOUR MEMBERS OF STATE LABOR BOARD TO RESIGN State Files Motion to Request that Union Members Recuse Themselves From Voting At Tomorrow’s Board Meeting 04-05-2004 Governor Donald L. Carcieri today called for the resignations of four members of the State Labor Relations Board. The Governor said that all four members had failed to carry out their duties in a recent 4-3 decision to allow independent child care workers to unionize and become state employees. The Governor called on Frank Montanaro, Joseph Mulvey, and John Capobianco to resign because they failed to recuse themselves for the vote, in which they had a clear conflict of interest. As members of the Rhode Island AFL-CIO’s executive board, the organization they represent stood to gain substantially by the expansion of union ranks through the addition of 1,300 new state workers. Each member of the State Labor Relations Board is paid a state salary in excess of $10,000 for their work on the board. Separately, the state filed a motion for the board’s three organized labor members to recuse themselves when the State Labor Relations Board meets to vote on the adoption of the final, written decision. The vote is scheduled to take place at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow, April 6th, on the 3rd floor of the Department of Labor and Training in Cranston. Governor Carcieri also asked for the resignation of the… Read more »
Rhody,
When you can develop your own thought process get back to me.
Polly wanna cracker? lol
Dear Tim,
Why wasn’t that easy to follow? The Governor declared a conflict of interest where none existed. Then, the next day he threw around the word corrupt.
The only thing lightweight around here is the Governor’s campaign which is so scared, it went negative today. Producing 12,700 jobs when you promised a meager 20,000 while lying and claiming 15,000 (almost as big a laugh as the big audit) will make you do that.
By the way, since you should know, is Alan GelFusco in or out of the inner circle this week? After McKay’s comments in the Phoenix, inquiring minds would like to know.
>>The day care providers weren’t even organizing a union, simply seeking state recognition. Yet Carcieri tried to peddle it as a union.
Let me get this straight. The SEIU – Service EMPLOYEES International UNION – was organizing this group and – without the impacted “members” ever getting to vote as to whether or not they even wanted to be unionized – SEIU sought to be recognized as the babysitters’ “representative” …
AND HAVE THE STATE DEDUCT “DUES” FROM THE BABYSITTERS’ REIMBURSEMENTS AND SEND THEM DIRECTLY TO SEIU …
and you’re trying to characterise this effort as non-union?
That’s almost as laughable as Charlie The Tuna (or was it Beluga?) Fogarty claiming that he’s going to clean up Rhode Island’s political corruption …
Yeah, without a doubt if elected, Charlie the lifetime member of the DeAngelis – Bianchini – Bevilaqua(s) – Harwood(s) – Irons and Celona party a/k/a “no visible means of support Charlie” will be the latest to “clean up” while in office!
That
Tim, I just hope you are not as arrogant in your personal or professional lives as your behavior on this board indicates. I would sure hate to be one of those around you on those rare occasions when you don’t get your way.