Re: Do Anything, Say Anything for Political “Victory”

Is it possible to view the MoveOn.org ad mentioned by Marc in the previous post as anything less than a questioning of General Petraeus’ patriotism?

Tomorrow–as General David Petraeus provides his Iraq assessment to Congress–the antiwar group MoveOn.org is running a full-page advertisement in the New York Times under the headline: “General Petraeus or General Betray us? Cooking the books for the White House.
If the General’s patriotism is not being called into question, then who exactly does General Petraeus stand accused of betraying?
Governor Mitt Romney has already responded to MoveOn’s message, via an e-mail to National Review Online
Democrats must make a choice. Will they embrace these deplorable tactics or give General Petraeus a fair hearing? It should be the hope of all Americans that we give him a fair hearing. Certainly, he and our men and women in Iraq deserve it. In the coming days and weeks, there will be much debate about the future course in Iraq, but this debate should be free of the kind of shameful tactics MoveOn.org has shown today. It’s time we heard from the generals, not Washington politicians and not ultra-liberal advocacy groups. All Americans should keep an open mind.

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george.morse@gmail.com
george.morse@gmail.com
13 years ago

So maybe the White House shouldn’t write Petreus’s report for him. But if you guys want to plug your ears and pretend like nothing is wrong, that is fine.

Greg
Greg
13 years ago

I really don’t care what the General has to say. If the Iraqis can’t get off their arses and and take charge, screw ’em. Let’s pack up and come home.

smmtheory
smmtheory
13 years ago

And you guys (Greg and George) see nothing wrong in doing exactly what alQiada and Iran want us to do?

george
george
13 years ago

Of course I don’t think we should be attacked. However, you are going to the extreme here. We oppose the war in Iraq, so we must be pro al-queda and Iran. Here is an idea, why don’t we finish the job in Afghanistan and Warzistan? Why did we not committ our resources there? Why have we ignored the war up there? How come we don’t talk about that anymore?
I think we give Al-Queda more credibility by attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. We look like the agressors and it gives the terrorists a great way to convince people that we are the ones to be opposed.
Iraq had nothing to do with terrorists that attacked us. If you believe they did, you are buying into a myth.

smmtheory
smmtheory
13 years ago

No, I’m not going to any extreme. I asked a simple question which you couldn’t even bother to answer. I said nothing about anybody being pro-Iran or pro-alQaida. I simply asked if you saw nothing wrong in doing exactly what they want us to do. Why is it so hard to answer that question? You could have even just given a one word response, yes or no George.

B
B
13 years ago

Why do liberals insist on debating the original justifications for the war when asked why we should do something that benefits no one but Osama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?
For ONCE, try living in reality. We’re there. Deal with it. Now answer the question.

george
george
13 years ago

“For ONCE, try living in reality. We’re there. Deal with it. Now answer the question.”
Fine, you want reality, let me give it to you.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0710.tilghman.html
Even assuming you think that article is wrong, Al-Queda Iraq is NOT Bin Laden’s Al-Queda, it is a diffrent organization. In fact, Bin Laden benefited from our invasion of Iraq because we look like the agressors and he can now say, look at those Americans invading your home land.
Petreus’s report changes nothing in the war. He wants to take away the surge level of troops and bring it back to change pre-surge levels? What have we gained? Nothing, we are in the same place we were at years ago.
Plus, if you are all so pissed off at moveon.org I expect an apology to John Kerry in the near future. Unless the rules are diffrent for people you don’t agree with politically.

John
John
13 years ago

George, Can you explain to me what transpired in Southeast Asia after we pulled out of Vietnam and ended all economic aid to that region

george
george
13 years ago

Vietnam became one of our trading partners and allies 20 years later?

smmtheory
smmtheory
13 years ago

Regardless of whether or not alQaida (a la ibn Laden) is or isn’t affiliated with alQaida Iraq, do you see nothing wrong in doing exactly what both alQaidas and Iran want us to do George?

george
george
13 years ago

Please tell me exactly what they want in your mind.

smmtheory
smmtheory
13 years ago

They want us to leave the field of battle (Iraq, in other words). That is what you want too, isn’t it? You did say, “Let’s pack up and come home”. You said it right after you said you didn’t really care what General Patraeus had to say. Am I to believe you didn’t really mean it?

george
george
13 years ago

At this point, I see no reason why we are Iraq, so yes I think we should withdraw.

John
John
13 years ago

George,
I posed the question to see if you can recall history or even know what took place
So again I ask if you can tell me what took place in Vietnam and Cambodia after we pulled out and ended economic aid? Do you know?

george
george
13 years ago

It’s a loaded question. The Khemier Roughe took over Cambodia.
The communists took over South Vientam and then invaded Camboida.

Andrew
13 years ago

George,
Osama Bin Laden was pretty clear in his next-to-last videotape that he wants an end to American democracy and worldwide obedience to Islamic law.
SmmTheory is dead on. If OBL and al-Qaida don’t see driving the U.S. out of Iraq, on their terms, as a step towards reaching this goal, then why was it the centerpiece of his message?

smmtheory
smmtheory
13 years ago

At this point, I see no reason why we are Iraq, so yes I think we should withdraw.

That still did not answer the question I asked. That you want the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq was never in doubt. All you did was reiterate what we already knew. Do you see nothing wrong with doing exactly what both alQaidas and Iran want the U.S. to do? How many times must I ask that question before you will answer it?

John
John
13 years ago

George,
Your are correct but also what happened was that 2 million were killed and mass Genocide occurred.
Unfortunately if we pull out now and end all economic aid I fear the same result would happen. Do you agree or disagree with that assessment?

george
george
13 years ago

so Bin Laden gets what he wants either way Andrew. If the US stays in Iraq he can recruit better and have his message resonate. And in fact, we opened the door for them! And since Al-Queda in Iraq is such a minor movement I don’t see our withdrawl as giving into Bin Laden’s demands. Bin Laden would claim the sun rising in the East if he thought it would further his agenda.
Smmtheory the reason I don’t answer is because again, it is a loaded question. You are going to try to equate it with surrendering or giving into the demands of a terrorist state or whatever.
Still, think of it this way. If Iran invaded Mexico, what would we be doing right now as a nation?

smmtheory
smmtheory
13 years ago

Smmtheory the reason I don’t answer is because again, it is a loaded question. You are going to try to equate it with surrendering or giving into the demands of a terrorist state or whatever.

Hey, I wouldn’t have to ‘try’ at all to equate it with surrender and defeat. And neither would alQaida and Iran. It would be a major, major victory for them. On a silver platter no less. What possible benefit could there be to our capitulation in a victory for hostile forces?

If Iran invaded Mexico, what would we be doing right now as a nation?

How is this analogous to the situation at hand? Has Mexico fought us to a stalemate in a border war? Have we been itching to subjugate or make Mexico a puppet state, but been unable to because they were too strong militarily?

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