For Those in Need of Comparison

Michelle Malkin has republished photos of what actual non-separation of church and state looks like. Others have rightly emphasized the silence that this oppression inspires on the international stage, but given recent discussion around here, I’ll make a tangential point:
Some Westerners apparently believe that allowing Christians to buck the secularist system within their own organizations or Christian leaders to explain how their religious beliefs apply to politics would unleash the demon evident in these images. I’d suggest that a look at the landscape as it truly is reveals that the evil actually inches forward with each new manacle placed upon the West’s religious citizens. Heed George Will:

When the McCain-Feingold law empowered government to regulate the quantity, content and timing of political campaign speech about government, it was predictable that the right of free speech would increasingly be sacrificed to various social objectives that free speech supposedly impedes. And it was predictable that speech suppression would become an instrument of cultural combat, used to settle ideological scores and advance political agendas by silencing adversaries. …
Some African-American Christian women working for Oakland’s government organized the Good News Employee Association (GNEA), which they announced with a flier describing their group as “a forum for people of Faith to express their views on the contemporary issues of the day. With respect for the Natural Family, Marriage and Family Values.”
The flier was distributed after other employees’ groups, including those advocating gay rights, had advertised their political views and activities on the city’s e-mail system and bulletin board. When the GNEA asked for equal opportunity to communicate by that system and that board, they were denied. Furthermore, the flier they posted was taken down and destroyed by city officials, who declared it “homophobic” and disruptive.
The city government said the flier was “determined to promote harassment based on sexual orientation.” The city warned that the flier and communications like it could result in disciplinary action “up to and including termination.”

A scrawled “Oppressor” on the hood cast over the bound Christian or traditionalist’s head must not be allowed to draw attention away from the hand that holds the whip — not the least because that hand may find it snatched away from its delicate grip.

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Rhody
Rhody
14 years ago

Wow. All the things Michelle fantasizes about doing to people who don’t agree with her.
But seriously, the U.S. has played ball with dictatorships and theocracies who’ve done this kind of thing. We helped give China next year’s Olympics without giving a damn about human rights abuses or people’s right to freely practice religion, be it Roman Catholic or Falun Gong, there.
Amnesty International has spoken out on these kinds of abuses for yesrs, but it is usually dismissed by the powers that be as a liberal organization (and tastes the tail of Michelle’s whip).

smmtheory
smmtheory
14 years ago

And who the Clinton played ball Clinton with the dictatorships Clinton and theocracies Clinton who’ve done this kind of thing during the Clinton administration? Must have been President Bush, eh?

Andrew
Editor
14 years ago

Why do the guys in power feel they need to wear masks?

Tom W
Tom W
14 years ago

>>The city government said the flier was “determined to promote harassment based on sexual orientation.”
But, apparently, harassment against heterosexual “orientation” is to be official policy.
(Just ask the Boy Scouts!)

mrh
mrh
14 years ago

Some Westerners apparently believe that allowing Christians to buck the secularist system within their own organizations or Christian leaders to explain how their religious beliefs apply to politics would unleash the demon evident in these images. I’d suggest that a look at the landscape as it truly is reveals that the evil actually inches forward with each new manacle placed upon the West’s religious citizens.
I’m sorry, I’m having trouble parsing this. I believe that combining the coercive power of government with religion is a recipe for disaster, as the example of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc clearly show, and that’s why I’m a strong advocate for the separation of religion and the state in this country. Obviously, we’re not beating non-Christians here, and thank goodness. However, I don’t think that the repellent nature of Islamic theocracy and the quasi-theocratic leanings of Christianists in this country are of different species.
But, apparently, harassment against heterosexual “orientation” is to be official policy.
Awwww. Poor oppressed straight guys.

smmtheory
smmtheory
14 years ago

Awwww. Poor oppressed straight guys.

Same tune, different religion.

mrh
mrh
14 years ago

Huh?

msteven
msteven
14 years ago

For me, the issue is what falls into the category of ‘separation of Church/religion and state’. This is one of those phrases which has been so twisted and perverted by advocates that the rhetorical value is higher than its actual meaning. The same can be said about other phrases such as ‘civil rights’ and ‘family values’. How did this culture get to the place where a group of people who want to meet to share their faith and even discuss politics is condemned in the context of ‘separation of church & state’. Did their flier say “no fags allowed” or “supported by the state”? How did the mere existence of anything that refers to faith in God become a magnet for controversy in the name of ‘separation of Church and state’? As much as I like to debate, the debate as to whether we are a secular or Judeo-Christian country is wasted time in my opinion. The truth is that secular does not and has never meant that the public religious displays fly in the face of secularism. I don’t see how someone – including judges and legislators – came to the conclusion that someone else’s display of religion is trumped by someone else’s ‘civil right’ to disagree or not be offended. But someone did and the door has been opened. As with everything, the issue is about where to draw the lines between rights of one entity versus anther when the issue results in someone being denied. My point is that the line has moved too far in the opposite direction of the entity using faith or religion as their basis. And to me, it’s even worse in that the line is based on liberal vs. conservative ideology. What is the most unfortunate is the agenda of groups who… Read more »

rhody
rhody
14 years ago

Freedom of religion is great in theory (that’s what Rhode Island was founded upon).
Unfortunately, Christians who want their freedom of religion aren’t willing to grant Muslims the same consideration (and vice versa). And neither seems thrilled about Jews, Hindus, Wiccans, etc. getting in on the freedom.
Maybe if both Christians and Muslims cut their ties with their respective fundamentalist loons, religion wouldn’t be such a divise force in this country.

msteven
msteven
14 years ago

Rhody,
Yes, maybe if EVERYONE ON EARTH would cut their ties with the ‘extreme’ wing of whatever they choose to advocate, then there would be no divisiveness in this country. Can’t we all just get along and agree?
“Unfortunately, Christians who want their freedom of religion aren’t willing to grant Muslims the same consideration (and vice versa). And neither seems thrilled about Jews, Hindus, Wiccans, etc. getting in on the freedom.”
Huh? Who specifically are you referring to that live in this country that are not willing to grant other religions the freedom to practice their religion? The KKK? Other than them and the islamofacists that want to destroy us (regardless of religion), I don’t see who you’d be referring to or can think of recent examples where Christians or Muslims wish to deny people of other religions the freedom to practice.
In the context of the post, are you saying that the city government of Oakland was correct in denying the GNEA to put up their flier based on ‘freedom of religion’?

Rhody
Rhody
14 years ago

The GNEA has the right to put up that flier. But that ability comes with the acknowledgement that others have the right to criticize it.
BTW, some of the more righty Christians are really pissed off about that congressional district in Minnesota which had the temerity to elect a Muslim (hey, democracy doesn’t always work the way we like it to, right?).

msteven
msteven
14 years ago

Agreed – I’ll even acknowledge that the description of “… with respect for the Natural Family, Marriage and Family Values” was an eye-roller for me. But that doesn’t mean I support government sponsored censorship.
As far as those pissed about the Muslim elected in Minnesota, that’s one of the negative outcomes of elections in a democracy. There will most often be those unhappy with the outcome. The good news is that they are allowed to opnely criticize witout fear of … severe (and also government sponsored) consequences.

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