For In-State Tuition, Show Us the Taxes

William Dimitri, of Johnston, makes an interesting suggestion regarding in-state tuition for illegal immigrants, in a Providence Journal letter that does not appear to be online:

On the one hand, those fortunate enough to earn in excess of $250,000 already pay a substantial amount of taxes, but that fact seems to escape the grasp of the … proponents [wish to increase those taxes].
On the other hand, it is highly unlikely that those illegal immigrants whom Diaz, Pichardo and the other “immigrant advocates” want to benefit have ever paid income taxes.
How about requiring that those illegal immigrants provide copies of their tax returns for every year they have been in Rhode Island before granting them the privilege of paying in-state tuition rates (which would make the idea more palatable to those who do pay taxes and tuition, like me) and leave those who work legitimately and pay taxes alone and in peace.

Honestly, I don’t know the statistics for illegal immigrants and income taxes, and even were such requirements included for in-state tuition, I’m can’t say I’d be for it. How about requiring people to follow the proper procedures for entering and remaining in this country? Especially with in-state tuition, which amounts to government-subsidized higher education, following the rules for becoming a legal resident seems the least one can do.

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Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

Or let’s go even one step further back. Let’s have the state’s schools come and testify under oath what it costs to educate each student. Then we can simply use the tuition numbers to know if DIaz (and others) are telling the truth that it won’t cost the taxpayers anything to give in-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants.
Because if what Diaz is saying is true, then the state schools are running a huge profit that is gained from every out of state tuition paid. And if that is the case, then we need to stop sending taxpayer money to the state schools!
And if it turns out that Diaz is lying, then she’s gotta go. You shouldn’t be able to lie on the House floor and keep your seat.

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

Why single out these kids? If you’re that concerned with punishing the children of tax evaders, you should be calling for that regardless of their immigration status.
I’m sure Justin wouldn’t have to look to hard to find a carpenters who make a little side income under the table (btw I’m not implying Justin has done this, but let’s admit that many do).

Max Diesel
Max Diesel
11 years ago

So not only are they here illegally but they’re tax evaders too and we want to give them a break on their tuition. Sounds more like we’re rewarding them for not following the rules but only Russ could justify that.

stuckhereinri
stuckhereinri
11 years ago

“then the state schools are running a huge profit that is gained from every out of state tuition paid. And if that is the case, then we need to stop sending taxpayer money to the state schools!”
Yeah, OK, sure. But if we get to that point, they won’t be ‘State Schools’ would they? Or would be in name only.
We already underfund our Public Higher Education Institutions in this state. If there is ONE place we should be putting more money into ( and EFFORT mind you, money alone won’t fix the problem).
I can’t believe the overriding attitude toward our public Colleges/Universities in this state.

mangeek
mangeek
11 years ago

As far as I’m concerned, if you can document that you lived here for two years (or whatever), you should get in-state rates.
First: The illegal immigrants who are -trying to go to college- are exactly the ones you want to keep… Heck, ANYONE who wants to go to college here should be encouraged to.
Second: These are mostly kids we’re talking about. They likely come from parents who came here illegally, and were only kids when they arrived.
I’m no fan of illegal immigration, but if someone was brought here by their parents when they were four years old, and they’re aiming to go to college, shouldn’t they get in-state rates? Don’t we WANT to retain the best, brightest, and hardest-working?

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

Hey stuckhereinri, no no, the schools are not underfunded, they’re turning a profit. Follow me in the logic.
Grace Diaz wants to give in-state tuition to the children of illegal aliens.
She said that it will not cost the taxpayers a single dime more because the cost of educating a student at the state schools matches the tuition that they pay. She says that if an in-state student pays the $9,000 a year for URI, that fully covers their cost. Out of state students pay $21,000. Why does it “cost” an extra $12,000 a year for these students? Grace told us that it only costs $9,000 a year. So this $12,000 a year difference is pure profit.
Or is the actual cost $21,000 a year, the amount that out of state students pay and the taxpayers make up the difference on the in-state students?
If that’s the case, then the children of illegal aliens, who are not citizens of the state, and go to a state school for the in-state price would really cost the taxpayers $12,000 each. And if that’s the case, then Grace Diaz lied on the House floor when she said it would not cost a single dime more.
So which is it? Did Grace Diaz blatantly lie on the House floor or are the state colleges turning a big profit?
What is this “overriding attitude toward our public colleges” you referred to? I don’t want to cut anything if Diaz is lying. If she’s lying, I want to cut her out of the General Assembly.
Where is my logic flawed?

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

So mangeek, if I steal a car and can keep from getting caught for two years, can I legally keep it then?
Want compromise? I’m open to dealing. Graduate from a RI public high school and then enlist in the military for four years and upon successful completion, you’re a US citizen. Now you have the GI bill to go to any college you want.

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

Rep. Diaz was citing info from study conducted at RWU…
“The Effects of In-State Tuition for Non-Citizens: A Systematic Review of the Evidence”
http://www.rwu.edu/depository/lpi/lpi-report.pdf
Folks are free to dispute the study’s findings, but accusations of Rep. Diaz “blatantly lying” are unfounded.

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

Oh, and, Justin, you’re wrong about this: “Especially with in-state tuition, which amounts to government-subsidized higher education…”

In 2008, the state of Rhode Island provided a subsidy of $3,367 per full time enrolled student (FTE) per year for public research universities/colleges (like URI), and $5,264 per FTE per year for community colleges (CCRI). This subsidy is per full time enrolled student (FTE) regardless of in-state or out of state tuition rates, and regardless of citizenship status. State subsidy budget allocations are not directly affected by the number of non-citizen students, regardless of whether they are paying in-state or out-of-state tuition.

I leave it to Patrick to determine if Justin is blantantly lying or simply misinformed (my guess is the latter).

mangeek
mangeek
11 years ago

“Graduate from a RI public high school and then enlist in the military for four years and upon successful completion, you’re a US citizen.”
That’s a lot like the DREAM act, but with military instead of college. I’m cool with that, as long as there’s a non-military civil-service option (Peace Corps, Americorps, Red Cross, etc.).
As for the stealing a car analogy… If Mom stole a car two years ago and she’s driving her kid around in it, do you charge the kid of Conspiracy with Grand Theft Auto?
In any case, in the war over what to do about illegal immigration, this particular issue doesn’t matter at all, it’s a cap-gun going off ten miles from the battlefield. It’s a lot of contention over an issue that’s really of virtually no importance to the budget or to the immigration situation.

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

Russ, I asked you this one before. If the in state tuition cost for URI is $9,000 and the state gives $3400 a year subsidy, is that the full cost to educate a student at URI? If it is, then why is the out of state cost more than $21,000? Is URI making a profit on all of those out of state students?

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

Don’t know if URI makes a profit, but I think the operative phrase here is “instructional cost.”
nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter
Other costs listed are research, public service, academic support, institutional support, student services, and other core expenses.
nces.ed.gov/ipeds/glossary/

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

No, the operative words here are how much does it cost to operate the university divided by the number of students that attend.
Why do RI residents pay $9,000 a year and non-RI residents cost $21,000 a year? With regard to that, what is your point in bringing up research costs, academic support, institutional support, etc?
What does it cost URI to enroll a full time student for one year?
The fact that you’re dancing around it and throwing in red herrings makes it more interesting.

mangeek
mangeek
11 years ago

“State subsidy budget allocations are not directly affected by the number of non-citizen students, regardless of whether they are paying in-state or out-of-state tuition.”
That’s like saying that I can have a lot more people over for dinner tonight because I already cooked a whole chicken. Sure, the state transfers a fixed amount to URI for each student, and it’s not like adding or subtracting a few students will actually change the ‘fixed’ costs. I get that.
But we’re not talking about ‘subsidy budget allocations’, we’re talking about the actual costs to run the whole darn system, adding ‘load’ most certainly does increase costs in the big picture, and the state loses money on URI (as it should).

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

“…how much does it cost to operate the university divided by the number of students that attend.”
I disagree. What’s at issue here is the incremental cost of any one student. You don’t build new buildings or add new administrative functions because of a single student. Those are essentially sunk costs, although I think we can agree that the real cost is bit higher than the instructional cost.
But the point is, the RWU survey is accurate in that regard as are Diaz’ statements about the cost of this particular legislation.

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

“That’s like saying that I can have a lot more people over for dinner tonight because I already cooked a whole chicken.”
No, by your logic you’d have to take the number of people attending divided by the total cost of your rent/mortgage, property upkeep, utilities, etc. That barbeque actually cost you $20,000!

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

You’re still avoiding the question, Russ. What does it cost to have a student attend URI full time for a year? $21,000 or $12,000?

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

Hey, I found the links. You can do the reseach. I say the cost of any given student is near (although likely a bit higher than) the instructional cost for the reasons I explained above.

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

“I say the cost of any given student is near the instructional cost”
Which instructional cost, in state or out? Just trying to figure out what you’re stating here.
I’d write to Rep. Diaz and ask the question myself, but based on the recent Hummel report, I wouldn’t get a response.

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

“Which instructional cost, in state or out?”
Instructional costs are the same no matter where the student’s parents live.
I didn’t see the Hummel Report. Not sure I care if Rep. Diaz responds to him or not so long as she remains responsive to her constituents (Diaz is my rep. btw).

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

This is a simple opportunity cost problem. Russ and “Representative” Diaz should take an introductory economics class and get back to us.

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

When’s the recital, Russ?
The point of the Hummel report was that she and a great many others at the State House *don’t* respond to constituents or other RI citizens.

Russ
Russ
11 years ago

Sorry, recital? Never heard that complaint about Diaz from anyone in the neighborhood, quite the opposite in fact, and I have heard that complaint about some of the others.

Patrick
Patrick
11 years ago

The dance recital.
Maybe Gracie falls into that group that only responds to her own constituents and no one else. That’s her right I guess.

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

“Diaz is my rep. btw”
For years and years I have wondered, “Who keeps voting these fools into office?” None would ever admit to it in person.
Now I have my answer.

joe bernstein
joe bernstein
11 years ago

Maybe Russ and the rest of the “socially conscious urban pioneer gentrifying people” can pay some extra taxes to relocate the people they pushed out to somewhere better than Amos House.
Diaz has been a destructive radical ever since she got elected.She is also a leech,being the only member of the GA not to pay a share of her health insurance.If she had to make an honest living,she’d disintegrate.

sierra1
sierra1
11 years ago

I don’t know why this is such a difficult concept for liberals to understand. The word is “illegal” their very presence in our country violates our laws. They shouldn’t be rewarded for not getting caught yet. They are not “undocumented” they are documented every time they show up in our emergency rooms for treatment we will all pay for, they are documented every time their children show up unannounced for school every Sept, etc.
Diaz, Balbina Young and the rest of them are criminals who should have been thrown out of office years ago.

Monique
Editor
11 years ago

We know for an absolute fact that in-state tuition is not break even. Far from it. URI’s Provost advises that their shortfall for in-state tuition is $12,500+ per year per student. Again, that’s just the shortfall.
Accordingly, Justin’s statement
“Especially with in-state tuition, which amounts to government-subsidized higher education”
is not strong enough. In-state tuition is government subsidized – i.e., taxpayer subsidized – higher education.
Rep Diaz, why have you been trying to add to our already high tax burden?
http://www.anchorrising.com/barnacles/012941.html

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